Friday, October 31, 2008

Why 4:13 isn't a double album

The Guardian has an article about the state of the double album these days, and has this very interesting bit about 4:13 Dream:

"I mean, you'd expect the Cure - a band with past double opus form, thanks to 1987's Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me - to be able to release a double album, right? Er, sadly not. Their new album 4:13 Dream is the "light" first half of a double collection, with the second "dark" half to be released separately in 2009.

Robert Smith recently told me the rather shocking factors behind the release strategy. Basically, Geffen were only prepared to pay them royalties equivalent to a single album, even if the album was priced as a double. In effect the label were penalising the band for wanting to give their fans more music for less. Smith insisted he didn't care about making any more money but the principle was paramount; he was furious at the idea of a major label conning him out of making the record he wanted. So he held back the second half of the album for six months and one day later, the earliest moment that his contract permitted. The concept would be intact, it would just be up to the fan to Sellotape the two "episodes" together."

And Idolator has an article reacting to the Guardian article.

(Thanks Fabrice and Kate)

63 comments:

  1. wow- this is great information. Thanks!

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  2. this is infuriating!

    this is the f**kin Cure we're talking about Geffen!

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  3. Nice bit of info, there. Appreciated.

    I always hated Geffen/Universal.
    Somehow I'm not surprised.

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  4. i wonder if its robert that s not wanting to promote it so much then-hence no interviews etc- just to fuck them off a wee bit more

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  5. and... whoever writes fr idolator is an arse:)

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  6. I just hope nobody is fooling themselves into believing the darker album is going to be released in 2009.

    I think we all know better than that by now.

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  7. DBC: It's my conspiracy theory that this is exactly what's going on. TMU/Geffen are not really promoting the album, so Robert isn't either. I don't think either side is very fond of the other at this point.
    The sooner they get the Dark Dream out, and finish their contract with Geffen, the better!

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  8. i reckon so .. esp if thats true about the 6months one day remark.

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  9. so that puts it at what, then? april 27/28 2009?

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  10. Yeah. Let's just say its "penciled in" for the first half of 2009.

    We all know how well that pencil works :)

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  11. it would be a shame to waste that many new songs...

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  12. A shame indeed. Let's get it out and get rid of Uni.

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  13. That "journalist" from IDOLATOR

    is a real dick and an arrogant prick !!

    He thinks that because he doesn't like some music it shouldn't have been released.

    If an artist decides to put out a double, well so be it.

    That concept of 'Hacking down' an album because he doesn't like all songs or just for the sake of having it "on one silver disc" is buggery.


    And I think the last RedHot double album is really great and a whole lot better than the previous single album.

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  14. At this point in their career cant The Cure just publish their own albums? Do they really need a record company anymore?

    Why are not more bands standing up and taking control of their music/tours/albums?

    If nothing else sell mp3 from their websites at .99 cents. That way they would take 100% of the earnings, and spend 80% on costs and keep 20%. Thats better than record company deals.

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  15. Completely off-topic:

    Craig!! I just heard that David Tennant is leaving Doctor Who!

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  17. Kate: Yeah, I read that yesterday. : (
    But he's still doing the Christmas special and the 4 specials for next year.

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  18. What do you expect from a label who forced them to use Ross Robinson on the last album, and then leave the best six songs off the release entirely. I sincerely hope that Robert takes a close look at the state of the record business today, and concludes that everybody from NIN, Radiohead, AC/DC and Guns & Roses were right to break from the label fold. The record co's are digging their own graves. (Geffen: the label who signed Ashley fucking Simpson. What more needs to be said??)

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  19. I will quote Al Swearengen :
    "cocksuckers"

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  20. Maybe I'm a little slow on this, but I'm confused...

    IF Robert really isn't concerned about making more money (and I sincerely believe that's true), and the decision is based solely on principle, why wouldn't Robert release it as a double album and take the hit financially? It confuses me that his main point is that he's furious the label won't let him make the album he wants. Well, they will, won't they? They just won't pay more for it. So go ahead and release the album you want, right?

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  21. I have a feeling that Robert wants that contract over as quickly as possible. This could be the first time in forever when a Cure album comes out on time...

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  22. todd - then theyd
    (geffen) be getting their way and thats his point as far as i can muster ,, plus this way he gets out of the contract asap,, if that is true we're getting the dark side too

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  23. I dunno, seems pointless to sacrifice getting your own way in order to make a point. If I'm an artist, and what I want to do is possible to do, I'm going to do it. Sacrificing artistic integrity to keep your integrity as an artist just seems a little...counterproductive.

    Basically, by not releasing the double album Robert put up the white flag and said "you win, Geffen. You made me do something artistically I didn't want to do just to prove a point to you."

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  24. I think there may have been a little more red tape involved than what is being reported here.

    I wouldn't put it past Universal to complain about the price of funding two discs for the same price as one. Then telling Robert the cost of the second disc will come out of his cut.

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  25. does it matter if we get the rest soon anyway ,, and then if their contract is finished ..maybe somet decent/unusual/interesting will transpire?

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  26. I really hope some good will come from this. However I can see it swinging both ways and perhaps something really bad may happen.

    The good thing about the contract was that we were guaranteed 3 albums. When the contract is over who knows what will happen to The Cure?

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  27. Todd, I agree with you; I don't get Robert's decision either.

    And call me naive (or gullible) if you will, but I see the next album coming along fairly soon. The band's got the songs in the bag already, and have a shitty contract to get out of; I don't see them wanting to prolong this whole thing any longer than they have to.

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  28. bad can be interesting or unusual too :)

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  29. but also todd... the contract doesnt garantee 3 albums.. it only garantees that if the cure did three it d be with geffen ,, they could quite easily not bother with the third..if they chose

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  30. an i know i spelt it wrong too , tuff lol

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  31. todd said:

    Sacrificing artistic integrity to keep your integrity as an artist just seems a little...counterproductive.



    Huh???

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  32. lol, you are all a bunch of MONKEES!!!

    why can't witches get laid? because their husbands have halloweenies!!!

    whooooo!

    happy halloween!!!!

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  33. MonkeyButt, I love it!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Thank you!

    Happy Halloween!

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  34. If Robert doesn't care about money, and the record company doesn't care to promote the new music (no videos, no ads), what's the point of doing business with them? As others suggested, why not adopt NIN distribution model and sell files or CDs directly to fans?

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  35. well, the author is asking why 4:13 dream is not double like kiss me? actually it is! it's double on the vinyl, but single cd, the same like the kiss me album ;)
    in fact it's much shorter than kiss me, but physically it's a double album :)
    btw. great info about what happens between bands and major record companies.
    i think the cure should find a small independent record company with a good distribution for example via polydor or something like that.

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  36. I thought ROBERT said that is was a single disc with 'all killer, no filler'?

    I'm sure many bands have been in positions where they have enough material in the bag to put out an additional album... but do not. I don't expect another CURE disc for four more years (excluding remastered).

    Speaking of remastered, that will probably occupy ROBERT's time for the next two+ years. So there we go...

    4:13 DREAM = 3.5 / 5

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  37. Dammit. this blows my whole dream theory. I was really excited about the low sales of this album, for me it ment that this one last push to be a mass media radio band had failed. But now Robert will blame the low sales on promotion and such. oh well, onwards to the "dark album" and just maybe some small venue shows, crossing fingers.

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  38. Did those low sales numbers that were posted include online downloads, like iTunes and Amazon?

    Everyone is buying digital now, that's why i think those numbers are down.

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  39. Fucking Corporations. I don't understand why they just don't go Independant?

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  40. Robert rawks! He's so loyal to us fans.

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  41. Robert should just sign with Merge or Matador who would allow him to do whatever he pleased.

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  42. if they really want to do what they please, and if they are really not interested in the money thing... then do like other artists do, including some big names... publish it online for a cheap price! or even for free! they would always find people interested in organising their live tour anyway!

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  44. Is anyone pessimistic about the prospects of another album next year? I'm thinking we'll see the "dark half" of the album sometime in 2012.

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  45. I'm quite optimistic. I think they'll get it out ASAP to get the contract finished.

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  46. Given that the current album has taken years to come out I can't imagine that they'll get anything else out anytime soon. I hope you're right!

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  47. I'm all confused on what a "double album" is anyway. I mean the "official" definition. I just got my 4:13 CD and Vinyl and the vinyl is 2 records. In fact hardly any CD today released on vinyl isnt 2 records. So how many songs, much music, what defines what is a double album if the single album is already 2 records?

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  48. I'm sure that the dark album is in the can already. They've already recorded all of the songs. Maybe they just have to mix it.

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  50. Hi, Pinkterror! I don't know the general definition for a "double album" in the music industry nowadays, but what Robert wanted was a pair of CDs containing songs - I don't know how many songs - of two opposite tastes on each disc.

    I mean it should be like the sun & the moon, black & white, light & dark, etc, etc. It reminds me of the principles of Yin & Yang.

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  51. A real "fuck you" to Geffen would have been to release the doule album anyway. We, the fans, will pay double the price regardless of the form so... I wish they had released it as they wanted to (if indeed it was their wish).

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  52. That wouldn't have been a "fuck you" to Geffen at all. They'd sell the set for a double disc price and only pay Robert for one disc, meaning that they'd be the ones making off likes bandits over this. What Robert is planning to do is the only fair thing to do considering that Geffen wants to charge the fans extra and not give Robert his fair share. I really hope this will finally teach him his lesson, and Bob will join one of the big indie labels like Merge or Domino.

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  53. It is a fuck you in the sense that he doesn't give a shit about money. If indeed he doesn't give a shit, then I say release it and never mind the money issue.

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  55. Yeah. I'm not so sure I agree with that business about "he didn't care about making any more money" and he was conned out of making the record he wanted. Sounds like Geffen wasn't going to stop him from releasing the double album if he wanted to. He just wouldn't get the extra money. The fans aren't going to be cheated out of anything. We either pay $19.98 for a double album now or $9.99 for the first album and then another $9.99 for the dark album. And I'm guessing the fans would have preferred the double album now instead of yet another wait.

    So, yes, this is about the money. And there is nothing wrong with that. The Cure is due the money for the second album. That's not being greedy. That's just getting paid for your work.

    However, it does irritate me when somebody gets all high and mighty about how "This has nothing to do with money" and how its really about having your artistic vision or whatever compromised. The way events are described in this story just seems to contradict that.

    But like I said...They do deserve that money. And its OK to say you deserve that money.

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  56. If you ask me, it clearly appears that he felt that it wasn't right that he essentially not be paid for half of the songs. And he's right. That is wrong.

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  57. dumb_anguish, you're quite right, though it is also has to do with the principle of the matter. Geffen was being cheap and Robert didn't want the band to get conned out of the money they deserve. At the end of the day, I think it'll all be the same, tracklist-wise, and I have no real interest in a double album over consecutive album releases.

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  58. A MESSAGE FROM THE FUTURE:

    - THE YEAR IS NOW 2012. THE SO-CALLED DARK ALBUM HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED, NOR IS IT RUMOURED TO BE RELEASED SOON. PEOPLE OF THE PAST, GIVE UP YOUR HOPE.

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  59. A MESSAGE FROM THE FUTURE:

    - THE YEAR IS NOW 2012. THE SO-CALLED DARK ALBUM HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED, NOR IS IT RUMOURED TO BE RELEASED SOON. PEOPLE OF THE PAST, GIVE UP YOUR HOPE.

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  60. Hahaha...brilliant! Made me laugh. Thank you! : )

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