Thursday, October 30, 2008

First week sales projected to be weak

Hits Daily Double has posted their first week US sales projections for 4:13 Dream, and it isn't good. They project that the album will only sell 20-25,000 copies. (Thanks Peter)

203 comments:

  1. In comparison, here's what some of the other albums have sold in their first week of sales in the US:
    The Cure - 90,705
    Greatest Hits - 32,452
    Bloodflowers - 70,953
    Galore - 36,413
    WMS - 74,000
    Wish - 135,348

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  2. wow, that is REALLY low....I don't think it will be that low....can it?

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  3. hold on why am i asking...the mighty U havent promoted it...fuckers

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  4. Jesus...Even self titled got higher sales! But I remember the popularity The Cure received during those years...It was a weird and random sudden fan rush for them

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  5. Yes the record company absolutely and utterly abandoned them.

    No new website when the singles were released , the delay in getting the singles on time in the stores etc ...

    No official videos !!!!!

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  6. file sharing. People are more than willing to download something for free and not support the band.

    Sad but true.

    JD

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  7. The album is amaaazing...there just isn't the prmotion there was last time...I still have the filter, uncut, and mojo they were on the cover of from 2004...this album is better...i think the music press is a bunch of snobs...4:13 is a fucking delight! -mark bade

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  8. there has definitely been a lot less promotion on the part of the record company for this one.

    also, it's true that in 2004 the cure somehow momentarily became "important" again to the music press for whatever reason and that is no longer the case.

    also people do download a lot more all the time. there's probably a lot of people that downloaded the album right away to hear it that will slowly make their way to the stores to buy it.

    regardless of all that.
    in my humble opinion...

    best album since wish.

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  9. At least they're on the cover of NME in the UK and they're going to be crowned Godlike Geniuses at the Shockwaves NME Awards in February. Hopefully they'll at least gain some momentum in their home turf.

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  10. there was a huge resurgence of popularity in 2004 and the curiosa tour surely helped.
    I haven't seen ANY promotion for it either.
    Still, I assumed there was waaaaay more than 25,000 hardcore cure fans out there...

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  11. looks like i'll have to buy a 2nd copy. for $9.99 at Best Buy, why not? C'mon. Let's pick up the pace and buy a 2nd copy.

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  12. Has anyone seen ANY ads in the US? TV, radio, posters, ads in magazines, web ads, anything?

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  13. Craig: Only in my dreams...on the side of a bus...:(

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  14. V: I heard about that ad. : ) I hear in Dreamland, the album is #1 and triple platinum already. : )

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  15. Craig - I haven't seen or heard anything, it's no surprise that people don't know about it then. Anybody around me only knows there's a new Cure record because I won't stop blabbing about it.

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  16. Well, I don't know much about sales projections, but when I went to pick it up at midnight on Monday, there were quite a few people in the store waiting. I mentioned to the clerk that I was probably the only one there for the Cure, and he said "No, everyone here is waiting for it". He also said that it was really unusual to have so many people there for the midnight sales.

    So again, you have a situation like the singles where there's no promotion whatsoever, no radio play, no hype at all, and there are still two dozen people in the record store at midnight in a sleepy suburb of Salt Lake, anxiously waiting to get their hands on the real thing. Despite the ready availability of downloadable copies.

    I think the actual numbers will be higher, but I guess we'll wait and see. I'm hoping the fans come through for the band.

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  17. For those who don't want to register to read the article, here it is:

    AC/DC’s Wal-Mart exclusive Black Ice and the third installment of Disney’s lucrative High School Musical franchise will vie for the top spot on next week’s HITS Album sales chart, though it’s still too soon to actually tell in what order.


    The week’s top debut will be P!nk’s Funhouse album on LaFace/ZLG, which offers love/hate valentines about ex-husband, motocross rider Carey Hart, including her first-ever #1 single, “So What.” With projected sales of 160-170k, the resurgent diva appears headed for a #3 bow, just ahead of Grammy-winning G.O.O.D. Music/Columbia soul crooner John Legend’s Evolver, which projects to between 140-150k.

    Show Dog Nashville country star Toby Keith’s That Don’t Make Me a Bad Guy looks to be in the 90-100k range, with Lyric Street’s Rascal Flatts greatest hits album just behind with a total of 80-90k.

    Other chart newcomers include Lost Highway’s Ryan Adams and the Cardinals, Columbia’s Celine Dion hits compilation and Interscope’s Snow Patrol, all trending between 40-50k.

    Stream Line/Kon Live/Interscope disco queen Lady GaGa and Suretone/Geffen’s goth-emo progenitors The Cure are both looking at between 20-25k in first-week sales.

    The market was up 8% vs. last week, down 15% vs. same week last year. still down 12% year to date, and not even close to doing as well as Sarah Palin’s stylist.

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  18. Come on! Don't be surprised, this is the worst album they have ever made! Worse than Wild Mood Swing! I don't understand why everybody is so happy about this poor pop music!

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  19. I am a fan, saw there concert on the current tour, bought the singles but I hate to say " I like the old stuff better then the new stuff"

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  20. Wow that really /is/ low... I was hoping this album would be a good one, album sales-wise. Sounds like the publicity they're getting over here is only a national thing though... Damn, I had such high hopes for this one!

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  21. I agree with eruceht and ben
    it is a really poor album.
    Maybe the worse with WMS

    The mix isen't good : the voice is too loud, porl guitare is too much (you don't even understand what he plays, and i am musican), the drums are weak.
    Only The Scream is ok.
    But no wonder he makes this shit, when almost all of you like shits like WMS.

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  22. It doesn't make sense. What about all those people who went to see them on the US leg of the tour? That was waaaay more than 25000 people in total, wasn't it? Or am I being naive? I recon the actual sales will be much better.

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  23. yeah there's been zero promotion, the wesbite thing is a fiasco and RS doing only one promo interview doesn't help either.

    Also there needs to be a new single to push the album. With the delay the last real single was already 2 montsh ago!

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  24. I think it's a matter of non-existent publicity, poor choice of singles that didn't get any airtime and, imho, new material that just won't attract new listeners. Don't get me wrong, I do think this album is much better than The Cure (2004), but is it "new" enough or different enough or inspired enough to get new people to take an interest in The Cure? I don't think so. I think you have to be a fan (meaning you have to have an interest in them and be used to the vocals and music) to enjoy this album. In a way, listening to The Cure requires an effort and people consume music nowadays. They listen for a week or two and then move on... Even us fans need a few listens to appreciate a new Cure album! People will hear it once and judge it on what they hear. So is the new stuff catchy enough to sell well? I don't think it is. But to me, that is reason #2. It's obvious this record company just doesn't give a shit about this new album. They figured they would sell a certain amount of copies just because of the band's following and they seem to be happy with just that. It's pathetic. Anyway... I'm just not surprised to read it might not sell too well. Having said that, those are predictions. It might do better in the end... Time will tell.

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  25. Does this figure include itunes etc? I bet its only physical copies.

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  26. how do they judge this after only 2 days sales then? are most of the sales at the weekend?

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  27. How can the numbers be so low, when it's #24 on Amazon.com?

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  28. Very poor Midweeks sales in UK for 4:13 Dream /according to Mon-Tue sales/

    01 Pink
    02 Snow Patrol
    03 AC/DC
    04 Kings Of Leon
    05 Bloc Party

    Top 10
    Celine Dion
    Daniel O'Donnell
    The Saturdays

    Top 15
    Mariah Carey
    Anastacia

    Top 20
    Katie Melua

    Top 30
    Hayley Westenra

    Top 40
    The Cure
    Ryan Adams & The Cardinals
    Scouting For Girls

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  29. Don't just blame the downloaders. Blame the record company for releasing it in some places before releasing it in others two weeks later. Why would people wait two weeks to BUY it when they can go online and download it the same day it's available in some other country?

    If the record company had one release date for all territories, I'll bet more people would buy it.

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  30. je suis super surpris de voir que les gens boudent l'album alors que moi je m'éclate avec et je le trouve bien meilleur que tous les autres depuis wish....j'espère que les américains vont se reveiller pourtant la tournée a bien marché..
    de toute façon je n'ai vu presque aucune promotion et pub pour l'album, j'ai l'impression que la maison de disque fait tout pour couler les cure...courrez vite acheter 4:13 dream car il vaut le coup......doms

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  31. Oddly the media profile of the band and the album in the UK seems ok. The NME coverage and endorsement - let's be honest - is great and will have raised the band's profile with more mainstream media. BBC on-line has the album as a 'recommended' new release and overall the number of reviews seems pretty good. I would say that the majority of reviews have been positive too. But the album does take a couple of listens in my view.

    But all that probably isn't enough to give them a hit album. In reality the band needs to work much harder at promotion to get mainstream cut through. One gig (ok, 'sell out' gig) at Wembley isn't going change anything. They need to do many more venues in the UK. Think about the way they promoted Wish with two tours in the UK. The band has made no attempt to appeal to new audiences here.

    They have done virtually no PR, no 'Later with Jools Holland', no Jonathan Ross show (or Russell Brand...sorry), no Chris Moyles or Jo Wiley, nothing on XFM etc etc. Some good airtime on MTV isn't enough.

    Of course there is only a tiny amount of marketing behind the album. Plus the singles are ancient history and at least in the UK hardly made an impression on the charts anyway.

    But you know what? It's good to be a Cure fan. We get three hours gigs from them and the people that really count - get them. This is how it is with them. Who cares if the rest of world doesn't know? It's always been that way. L'etrangers forever...

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  32. Is anyone really surprised?
    If it is a good album, word-of-mouth will help sales in the long run, and it wwill be a slow burn success (in commercial terms). But I doubt it. It only compounds things that it's such a poor album...an insult even to the name 'tribute band.'. The taut rhythms and tunes are long gone, the free-flowing lyrics dried up albums ago. In fact the Cure died albums ago, if the truth be known. Yet for some reason I keep thinking\hoping a good album may be just around the corner. If not this, then the Xmas dark album, and so on...but it's an illusion. But I think we've been here before. Now where's that giddy pink zippy bubble....

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  33. Well said Andrew. They're our band. Our little secret :) We don't need validation through astronomical album sales.

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  34. falstaff


    Say what you will about the album..but the lyrics are some of the best he's written. ever.

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  35. Is anyone really surprised?
    If it is a good album, word-of-mouth will help sales in the long run, and it wwill be a slow burn success (in commercial terms). But I doubt it. It only compounds things that it's such a poor album...an insult even to the name 'tribute band.'. The taut rhythms and tunes are long gone, the free-flowing lyrics dried up albums ago. In fact the Cure died albums ago, if the truth be known. Yet for some reason I keep thinking\hoping a good album may be just around the corner. If not this, then the Xmas dark album, and so on...but it's an illusion. But I think we've been here before. Now where's that giddy pink zippy bubble....

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  36. What I really meant to say was, 'fuck 'em'. We have the album. Most of us like it. That's it. Who gives a shit about the rest. Just a load of wankers.

    Sorry...needed to let that out.

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  37. falstaff: I respectfully disagree.

    This album succeeds where the last three have failed, in my opinion, because its different.

    The Cure that we fell in love with twenty (for me) or more years ago are gone. Like a first love, we hold on to a memory or feeling of that time. Its just as much about who we were as fans as who they were as musicians/writers.

    Ever meet a first love twenty years after the fact? Its almost always a disappointment. Appreciate them for who they are now as much as what they were then.

    Besides, there's still no other band I'd rather listen to.

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  38. i reckon yr merely trying to live up to yr namesake mr falstaff.. not quite so amuusing though unfortunately

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  41. Mike...the lyrics seem pre-occupied with slotting into place sound-wise, and allowing those vocal turnaround tricks, and often squashed into place. But then it's unfair to take them out of the context of the song. Reading them on their own is not my idea of fun, and not really what it's about (mainly, because I'm tempted to start giggling after the first couple of lines in most cases)

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  42. is that figure really a surprise? what promotion has there been for it??? if the singles hadn't been released months in advance, along with the tour so far ahead of the album, the numbers might have been a bit higher.

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  43. deadboy....well it always degenerates fairly quickly on here it seems if you dont wave the party banner...keep em coming, and I'll keep ignoring em

    marc...I know what you mean and agree up to a point. I've like to like them now, and I just can't. I've tried and I'm trying. It's the songs: they're just not there IMO. I'd love some new energy and effervescence...self-renewal and all that. But every time I try coming at the album from a new angle, I just run into the brick-wall of what I think are poor songs. Even poorer than I expected mostly, which is saying something for me :)

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  44. what you expect ,, why do it if you dont want a res;once? your pulliung my leg now incha? :)

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  45. anyway, best disappear before the rest of the faithful start weighing in with the usual mix of personal stuff and worked-at-for-hours casually glancing putdowns. I've got nothing new to add, essentially. I am surprised that here and elsewhere, so many people cnanot tolerate criticism of their favourite band (or really man - Robert). Colours seem to be so firmly nailed to masts. You're in or you're out, black and white and all that. I think the album isn't totally finally awful, just despairingly mediocre at best. But then that's not unique in a band that's been around so long. But it is a shame, and it's a shame for Robert. You get glimpses of an intelligent and sensitive man in the interviews, under the performing-seal stuff, but it doesn't seem to be making onto record. If anything he's just going through the motions, and in my view,pre-occupied with pleasing the worst sorts of fans. Writing about fans and expectations, for heavens sakes, is almost as bad as writing about the rigours of touring. It's end of the road stuff.

    Hare Krishna, as Russell Brand might say....:)

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  46. I blame Olive and Falstaff for The Cure's problems... and OB on the official site, of course.
    Isn't it obvious?

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  47. Hey, Falstaff, why do you still hang around here? You still repeat the same old boring stuff, just like The Cure, right?
    Just move on with your life, and let us enjoy this poorly made album by the long lost shadow ghost Cure.
    Doesn't we have a right to be pathetic sap?
    lol

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  48. hynreck... ahh its so nice to read someone with a sense of humour on here :)

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  49. I dont, first time in ages.

    yes you does have the right, or even do...do do do....dah dah dah

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  50. yup that's right...anyone who disagrees doesn't have a sense of humour. Yup, spot on. how do you spell it...L-O-L?? Fer chrissakes....:)

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  51. what a nice way to while away the hours eh?

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  52. Must we be surprised at low sales, anyway?
    A string of poorly-received albums spread thin over too many years, basically no ads or publicity for 4:13 Dream...
    It's no surprise at all.
    Doesn't change the fact that 4:13 Dream is fucking brilliant.

    And it's no surprise at all that in the face of all those good critics left and right, the only thing those who hate The Cure (but love to troll out to fans who still love them) can grasp at is the somehow bad news of low sales expectations.
    Really grasping at straws, here.

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  53. Ok I just need to vent about this and figure this is as good a place as any.

    As I listen to Dream more and more, the production is better than TC, but not by much.

    On the second half of The Scream I can barely distinguish anything...it's all just white noise with Robert screaming on top of it all. They ruined possibly the best song on the album!!! It's WAAAAAYYY too compressed and loud. And the ironic thing is that with all that noise, the drums sound like plastic toy drums by that point. Production values have gone down the drain, and I hate it. It ruins the song for me, seriously. It makes me want to f-ing vomit.

    And the album is growing less and less on me as I listen to it more. That's not a good sign. It's not sophisticated and complex enough of an album to be discovering layers and layers with more listens. I have to be yet another one of those "their old stuff was better" guys. The only difference is that I consider 2000 old stuff.

    I hate to be the grump in the middle of the party, especially since my hopes for this album were sky high.

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  54. And by the way, as anybody knows around here, I have no sense of humour whatsoever.
    I AM A MACHINE.

    And it's spelled L-O-L-A-S-S-W-I-P-E.

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  55. hynreck...no you're just a bit sad, guffawing to the peanut gallery. But hey, that's up to you. You're probably a regular, so do what makes you feel good...you see, I knew it would descend to inane personal attacks within minutes....

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  56. why would i buy the cure when i can buy the new hinder and t-pain albums. that's REAL music.

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  57. hynreck...'as anybody knows'...so you must be quite the celebrity round here? Sorry, I didn't realise...

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  58. Don't worry, in a few more post, you'll beat me to it.
    You still have not answered what you are still doing here. Why don't you stop beating that dead horses of yours?
    This is not the first time I find you here stating the same over and over and sparkling flame wars. I get that you are a troll and that's what you do, but at least you could answer that question fair and square.

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  59. ...or do you just really come here in the hope of changing our minds? You are posting on a Cure fan blog, after all.

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  60. I've told you straight, but you ignore the salient bits and go for cheap, twatty shots to raise a cheap giggle.

    I dont spend much time here as I've said, I look in from time to time and post occasionally in a quick burst maybe once every few months, if that.

    And when i do post, i find it really, truly depressing when people say things like 'you're posting on a cure fan blof, after all...' as if that means you can only post positive stuff and never be critical. Bollocks. Any true fan - of anything - can distinguish between good and not so good, or at least have opinions where everything isn't uniform.

    I see nothing wrong with people disagreeing. But when you do here, say you post an honest opinion, the reaction is usually factious, often pathetic. Sometimes, just sometimes, it's nice to post once i a while to see what the feeling is, how it stands with other people, and whether anyone else agrees. If you're indicative of a typical Cure fan, and you're responses, then I aint one, that much I do know.

    And why dont you tell me what you're doing here? Maybe because it isn't any of my damn business why someone chooses to post here, hmm? Yeah, there goes the live-and-let-live mantra, right?

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  61. It must be more than that, where is the promo, i hope people search "the cure" in youtube as my channel is on top shall make the tagline "buy 4:13 dream" or summit, looks like the fans shall promote!!!

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  62. For heaven's sakes, The Cure members are in their 50's, practically. I doubt there's much financial impetus to make music now. They make the type of music they want to, and we enjoy itl or we don't. The new album has some very good work on it, and some that is not my favorite. Enjoy the parts you like. At the very LEAST, the music is interesting. I see craftsmanship at work here. This album has highs and lows just like any other album. I am not disappointed at all. How could anyone be further disappointed after the dismal 2004 album. This one is SOOOOOOO much better.

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  63. Defeat seems to have utterly disheartened poor Falstaff. The ferocity of Hynrecks taunting took him completely by surprise...

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  64. falstaff, I'm with you.

    Why is it only he is repeating all the same old stuff, but everyone who praises the album over and over again gets a pass? So, you can spout your opinion all you want, so long as it's positive?

    This is stupid. All internet conversation ends up the same way. I don't even know why I read or participate in any of it.

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  65. swifty...ah, it was taunting was it? Righty ho....it sort of blurs into stock responses after a while. Sorry, shoudl I be angry? I'm half in the middle of soldering up an old guitar cab, so I can't admire the beauty of this cut and thrust every minute, much as I'd love to...helps if it's at least witty tho..

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  66. todd, well put, just what I was thinking...

    do people assume it makes you\me\us angry or nose-out-of-joint?

    It doesn't, quite the opposite, it just makes you think 'kids...' sometimes funny, sometimes spiteful and vindictive, sometimes vengenful and close-ranks, but still, at the end of it, just...kids....

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  67. Good Sir, I salute you. Still hanging around here after all my vicious flames, stating your right to live and let live, of opinions, and still hating The Cure post 1989.
    Good stamina.
    So what is your job description again? "Likes to hang out on fan blog to give happy fans cold showers on what I think is a garbage piece of work for a group that has no reasons to exist anymore?" Because we all do what we do for a reason, for a purpose. Surely if this purpose didn't give you satisfaction you wouldn't be here arguing?
    Ah here's something puerile for you, hope you love my cheap attack; I'm just a kid after all...

    Do I turn you on?
    Do you want to meet back at my place?

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  68. I am going to have to agree with a lot of the comments on here. I listened to the album back to front three times yesterday- twice in my headphones and once on my stereo. The only song that reminds me of the CURE that I fell in love with over 20 years ago is UTS. I like Freakshow and It's Over. Other than that, not interested. But I mostly agree with what BRIAN said: They are in their 50's and they have made their money and they are making the music THEY want. So good for them! I am glad they are still creating and I hope they continue to. I'd rather have one UTS in many moons than none at all.

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  69. Now see, txlola, that's well constructed criticism I can live with. Bravo. You have not tried to insult anybody else here who likes it. Now if some others would understand that they'd be WELCOMED here, instead of set upon.

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  70. I don't see naything wrong is being disappointed with the album and "the old stuff was better bla bla", altho I sincerely like this album (for the 1st time since Wish). I completely agree though with Todd regarding production/compression. The louder stuff really gets messy, which is a real shame cuz 'It's over' would be soooo badass if mixed properly.

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  71. falstaff... I am with you!

    anyway, as I wrote before this album sucks, The Cure was much stronger, even better than Bloodflowers. The Cure was a great product with the usual 2 or 3 crappy pop songs but on a general level a wonderful Cure-like album, just with a new interpretation of the feelings Robert has always been transmitting to his fans.

    look at Depeche Mode, they are getting old too, but their last albums are not commercial pop shit, you can still listen to their style even though with a new and different strength.

    if Robert still had some of his creativity, and wanted to use it, he would have created an album that would not have made it to the top of hitlists and to VMA anyway, but that many more people would have loved and bought. I have about 150 cds by the Cure, but this time I will not buy this crap and not even the singles! not even the b-sides are good songs as they use to!

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  72. yeah, because 4:13 dream is going to be ALL over MTV...

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  73. So i looked at that thread earlier on this morning and it had 25 or so posts, then just now i looked and it had 73.....73!!! i thought there would be some intereting comments..were there fuck!? Pathetic and childish,NEXT!

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  74. See, exactly the kind of people I'm talking about. When they say this album sucks and is crap, like a statement that should be blunt truth, they are insulting those who like "that crap", indirectly though it may be...
    Some people are just plain rude.
    When is that end-of-the-world virus/zombie plague coming again?

    The human race is in dire need of a PUUUURGE!!!

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  75. Ok it's my turn to taunt...

    Falstaff, you're a legend in your own lunchbox.

    NEXT PLEASE!!!

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  76. hynreck...it's well constructed and constructive if you happen to agree with it, you mean. Ridiculous.

    Set-upon? Nah....

    Do you turn me on? Nah, buy my wife does. Sorry!

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  77. *yawn*

    this is a house of love. don't turn this into a house of pain.

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  78. I agree, it's enough. For my part I'll quit cause... *rolls Cure title* it's Going Nowhere and It's Over.

    Cut.

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  79. 'See, exactly the kind of people I'm talking about. When they say this album sucks and is crap, like a statement that should be blunt truth, they are insulting those who like "that crap", indirectly though it may be...'

    And those who say its great and wonderful, insulting those who dont like it, indrectly though it may be...has the penny dropped yet?

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  80. You livin' in negative world or somethin'? How's giving positive thoughts on anything insulting? You're grasping at straws again, but I see you've managed to make me come back for more.
    Good for you.
    Now I know that you are using flawed logic, and I've not started to point it out yet (all of it) because there's simply too much and I'm over turning this usually friendly board into trash, but I wanted to say it once more before I go.
    Keep on posting if you will, until blood drips from your fingertips for all I care.
    Show us your flawed logic once more, you are only helping me.

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  81. oh, wait, i get it. falstaff and hynreck are the same person! two halves of a dark, frightening mind, fighting for supremacy.

    who will win?

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  82. It'a schizo album -- it's not coherent enough, it's all over the place.

    The 4 singles released prior to the proper album don't seem to fit in well with the other songs.

    Too little emotionality on this one.

    Great guitar work, though.

    But if this is the Dream, I'll stay asleep.

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  83. 0h n0s! With sales that poor, Geffen may dump the band and the next album will have to be on an independent label. ;)

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  84. Maybe the disappointing sales figures are making people a little touchy. It's a shame but in the end what difference does it make?

    As an observer, I would say falstaff had a certain attitude of being ready for a fight, but can we be more tolerant of dissenting views?

    It's almost as bad as taking sales figures personally.

    I really like the album, but with sadness I have to agree that it sounds really badly compressed. How could RS let that happen?

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  85. i finally listened to it last night on my good stereo, and i agree, it's way too compressed. damn it for that. i can't blast it and feel comfortable with the music. intimate details are lost. i know there's a lot going on there, but it's impossible to discern, which is a shame.

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  86. well i bought 5 copies here in the US tuesday 1 for myself and the others for christmas presents trying to spread the cure in the family for those who dont know them :D

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  87. I found the sweet spot on my stereo for it. I have an old Harman Kardon 730 from the late 70's that is restored and sounds great. I switch on the high pass filter, put the bass at about 75%, treble at about 80% and then turn the volume up about 40%. it's loud and crisp and sounds great. really nice thick rich bass on my Mirage 500's.

    Oh...this is also the vinyl copy running off of a technics turntable with a $35 shure red cartridge.

    I'm a very happy boy.

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  88. thanks, mike, i'll try something similar.

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  89. One more thing to contemplate: Teenage minds are highly addictive; if you start drinking at 13, you have a ridiculously high chance for becoming an alcoholic. Music might work the same way, i,e., if you fell in love with the Cure in your teenage years, as I did, you get "addicted" to a certain sound/feeling/reaction and that may set your future expectations up for failure. I was HUGELY disappointed with Bloodflowers, perplexed and disappointed with The Cure (2004), but I really like the new album. LIKE, not love yet. Love takes a while. When Love Song came out, I wasn't much of a fan. It grew on me. Will this be a classic album. Probably not. Discussion Question: Name some megabands that had MORE than two classic albums! Try it...

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  90. "The Cure" has a better production than Dream 13, the new songs are better but..yeah too compressed. I can barely the guitar in some part, i can just hear the voice and the effects. Why? I dont know. Before 2000, Bloodflowers, i never had problems with Cure Record, from that point of view. I dont know..The Screm, Switch, and Siresong are really good and sound very buried. Mah!
    ...
    The good news is that the record is selling bad, so the next one will coming out very soon.

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  91. You know, it's interesting. I came into loving The Cure WAY later than all of you...we're talking 2003 here. By then Bloodflowers was already 3 years out. And you know what? I LOVE Bloodflowers. And I wonder if my opinion would be different if I'd been one of you guys who bought the album right as it came out. The two albums that have come out since I've become a fan are both disappointing to me. Dream is much better, but still, there's a part of me that think maybe I even prefer WMS to Dream, as inbalanced as WMS is. But I'd take "Want" over UTS, "Jupiter Crash" over "Sirensong", "Mint Car" over "The Only One"...the "highs" of an album are mostly what I'm concerned about. If it has the great, great songs, I can overlook a few mediocre tracks. Dream has barely any that give me that feeling. UTS, "Switch", and "The Scream" come the closest.

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  93. man, where did all the unhappy fans come from all of a sudden?? by the way, All Kinds of Stuff rocks my fuckin face off.... i could just listen to it over and over and over and so on

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  94. Brian - The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Doors, Beach Boys, Paul Simon, Elvis, Bob Dylan, The Police.
    I think it depends on what you consider a "classic".

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  95. Hynreck, I have fallen madly in love with you.

    I say, let the savage critiques roll on in. Livens things up. Sure, though, we could all do without the petty flame wars, especially those ignited by small passive aggressive minds.

    I personally think the album is BRILL to the IANT, musically, and lyrically. Production-wise, it's pretty bad in parts, and glimmering in others.

    TRSW is the weak link for me, but my boo Chris has induced me to re-think it, so I will.

    Viva La Cure. They never ever lost a single ounce of "it" and those who think they have should just politely move on rather than wallow in their self-created swamp o' misery.

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  96. Yesterday I told a friend that as an album, I enjoyed the ST more than WMS. But there are actual better individual songs on WMS than ST...same way with how i feel about Wish and Dream....

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  97. Reminder: Where do the UK stats come from?

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  98. lol cat.

    I'm not here right now... <_<
    I'm busy fighting Falstaff on top of a mountain...

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  99. MPS - Pretty good list ya got there. Some comments:

    Brian - The Beatles (got me there!)
    Early Beatles = wonderful
    Mid Beatles = acquired taste
    Solo Beatles = Elevator Music! (Wings?)

    Led Zeppelin - I love the Zep; still, kind of a Cult ban; could Non-Zepheads actually name the albums?

    The Doors - ditto Zeppelin comments

    Beach Boys - Love the early to mid; Pet sounds has one or two good songs; I REALLY tried to love it; no dice. Smiley Smile and the new BWilson/Van Dyke Parks Smile is OK but not great...ultimately a niche band, but fun. They were on the cusp of greatness, though. Read the history of Brian Wilson and Sgt. Pepper some day - he wanted the Beach Boys to put out a classic/experimental record like "Sgt Pepper," but, sadly, he went nuts for about thirty years.

    Paul Simon - I great FOLK music; not rock, I think; wrong genre for me, but he's married to Edie B. so good for him!

    Elvis - solo act; doesn't count.

    Bob Dylan - solo folkie; wrong genre

    The Police - basically a solo act; Sting is too self-righteous for me...

    MPS wrote: "I think it depends on what you consider a "classic""

    MPS, Yes, - agreed on this.

    I think RS has one more classic in him, but he needs to REALLY torture himself to get it out..

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  100. the great thing about music is that it's entirely subjective. we're all allowed our opinions and can be happy with that (hopefully). the problem comes like with religion: we try to make sure everyone else agrees with us, and therein problems arise.

    i like the album. i don't like the sound thus far regarding compression and loudness, but i may be able to overcome that. as far as melodies and lyrics and musicianship goes, this album is fucking great.

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  101. and brian: 'silly love songs' by wings is a GREAT FUCKING SONG. listen to the way the vocals are arranged. genius.

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  102. UTS is ok
    Scream is ok

    The rest is horrible.
    And the number 5 track : it must be forbidden to create such songs ! Let's put robert in prison for that shitty song !

    Why they did this ? it feels it has been made too quick. The guitare is horrible, Porl go away !
    The bass lines are so classic.
    Voice is too loud (hey Robert you're not the only one on the track)
    But the worst is the songs itself : no creativity at all, what a bad dreams.....

    ANd MonkeyButt now i agree with you : WMS is not the worst album, it's Dream now. (but WMS is second)

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  103. In 2001, Duke University funded a study to see why the head of a man's penis was larger than the shaft. After one year and $180,000.00 they concluded that the reason the head was larger than the shaft was to give the man more pleasure during sex.
    After Duke published the study, Stanford decided to do their own study. After 3 years of research and $250,000.00 they concluded that the reason was to give the woman more pleasure during sex. The University of Wisconsin, unsatisfied with these findings, spent $16.75 (for a Playboy, Penthouse, and a case of Old Milwaukee) and concluded that it was to keep a man's hand from flying off and hitting him in the forehead.

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  104. Swifty!

    HILARIOUS! and just what I needed. Thanks!

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  105. Fucking great Swifty. I loled at the job, thanks!

    And Olive, just make like a tree and leave already.

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  106. We should all give up and assume that we are far from a bloodflowers, a disintegration or a 17S.
    The job isn't goog.
    And lets complaint to Robert to revisit his copy and ask him to make something better than that, because he can do it and we expect it.
    He should go play music in a garage, with normal guitars, 2/3 effects only, and record like this. Without taking a year to mix...

    It's our role to say him we are not all 100% satisfied.

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  107. cat and others, you guys need to learn to accept opinions. Nobody is on here saying that you guys are morons for liking the album, are they? But you're so freaking defensive about it that you make it up to be that way in your own mind. Flame wars? Please. It's called discussion. But because some of the comments are slightly critical it's all of the sudden considered personal attacks somehow.

    Just because not everyone is saying 4:13 Dream is the greatest thing since sliced bread, it doesn't mean your opinion is being devalued, or we are wallowing in self-misery, or anything like that.

    So anyone who thinks the album is anything less than "brill" to the "iant" should just move along? Oh, sorry to rain on your parade, miss. I guess only those who love the album more than their own child are welcome here.

    *moves along*

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  108. And to the Mighty Hynreckandjoe :

    it is because of people like you who kneel at everything Robert does, that we have this shit now.

    You're not the one who think he can be wrong.. sometimes.

    Yes we are all wrong except you, this album is wonderful and we will all remind it in 30 years. It's history.

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  109. Falstaff, I agree totally -- and these insinuations that disliking new Cure music is tantamount to not being a real Cure fan? Pleeez. That's like saying that disagreeing with government policy makes you unpatriotic.

    The poor sales are surely due to many factors, not the least of which being that no one buys albums anymore (even Madonna's last album sold disappointingly).

    But even the band's die-hard fans have stopped buying Cure records. And I don't think it's because of overcompression -- if the songs are fantastic, listeners will forgive almost any sonic shortcomings (Pornography sounds like it was recorded inside a tin drum but nobody cares because the material itself is undeniable).

    But to me, these songs sound like they were collected from Wish's cutting room floor. I'm hardly surprised that the commercial response is so tepid (I'm sure the record label is doing fuck-all to promote the record, but still....).

    IMO.

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  110. that's not our "role" at all. our role is to listen and be objective and observe the art and not tell the band what the hell to do.

    and if you don't like it you can fuck right off! :D

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  111. The world would be a greater place if there was more people like Olive.

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  112. sofia, what i really want to know is: is the new album masturbation material yet?

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  113. Sofia i Dont like it.
    ANd I fuck anything i want or i can, but not you.
    And if you like your servant role, ok.
    But my role is not just to listen and wait. I say what i want.
    ANd i wanted to like the album very much and thats why i'm so disapointed and upset by people who always say that they are good/right whatever they play.
    For 4 months you piss me off with your Underneath the Star as being the best song ever : see the result now ! or listen should i say as it is the best thing you do.

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  114. Andeee is right - the die-hard fans have stopped buying their records, (increasingly shouted down by a younger, noisier crowd) And the disenchantment isn't helped by Robert seeming to pander to this teen-agery? Which smacks of desperation somehow....

    Give me one Ariel for the last few albums...in fact, they could do worse than bring back Lol, and lose Porl (I'm a guitarist. Porl isn't adding that much). Lol did write All Cats Are Grey, after all, whatever some people may say about him....

    (and I agree with Olive)

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  115. Swifty i don't understand.
    why i am repugnant because i don't like the album or because i disagree with the insult (fuck off) of sofia ?

    It seems i am not the only one to not like the 13 Shits, read the reviews.

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  116. It's just the way you are Olive, don't fret too much.

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  117. swifty...and you the resident wit and all...seems to have deserted you...

    And what are you?

    the poet Pope said (paraphrase):

    'I am His Royal Highness's dog at Kew:
    pray tell me, Sir, who's dog are you?'

    My prediction was right - this would descent into a mud-sling as soon as the odd dissenting voice dares rear its head. And if it's not the opinion, it's the way it's pharsed, and if it's not the phraseology, it's something else, and so on.

    Maybe it's just some of the older fans can't quite believe how bad the album is? As Chris Parry once said...'funny that.'

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  118. I don't know about the physical sales, but yesterday the US iTunes had 4:13 Dream in the top 10, and as of right now, its at #11. I bought a real copy, not that download and then get the digital booklet shit. I mean, the Cure has been around for a while, has lots of longtime fans, but I don't think they are getting much of a new audience, partly I think due to Geffen's advertising bs. I didn't see one ad for the album anywhere, it seemed like mostly word of mouth and the internet. But we should be happy that the Cure is still making music for us ungrateful whiny fans! They could just as easily sit back and watch the Cure fanbase deteriorate with questions of "WHEN WILL THERE BE ANOTHER ALBUM!?!?" and then not release one at all, right? I'm happy with the fact they still are being active!

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  119. Hyn you poor thing, feeling left out?

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  120. I liked Lol as he played as a drum machine.
    i'm sure that some new songs would sound really better with less material (less guitare) and simple but loud drums.

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  121. Yeah, I do agree that Porl should at least lay off the wah/flanger stuff. You can barely tell what he is playing because he drowns his guitar in so much shrill flange! Let Robert take over and go back the more minimalistic stuff, or make some great guitar parts like The Kiss.

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  123. sofia, the only one is my favorite of all the singles. and i like the look of that goth juice. we should send dirty messages to each other.

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  124. I missed you Falstaff.
    I missed your bright insight into our weakling condition. I'm only waking now to the truth that I've been a slave all those years.
    Olive and you make a great tag team.
    And really, you should go out there and preach, bring out the word, manage your flock.
    And if you knew you coming here would bring so much hated mudsling, why did you come? Why didn't you just scoff and pass it as foolery best left untouched?

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  125. Lol was actually a far better drummer, on his day, than given credit for, and played to the Cure strengths in the earlier days. I wonder if Robert belatedly recognises that?

    Porl is a *very* good guitarist, but he's wasted and innappropriate here (and let's forget the clothes). Robert is a good guitarist, or used to be...with a big Hendrix undertow in there.

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  126. hyn...you know what...? You sound exactly like Cat. Sounds like the tag-team slot is already very much filled...

    I'm still bemused by the idea that it's all yay or nay, you're in or your out. You've done the personal thiing, asked for reasons and motivations, and been given them, asked plenty of questions, but provided not one single satisfactory answer of your own as afar as I can tell, apart from equating liking the album with being positive. As if that alone is a gooo thing.

    I think not liking the album is a good thign too. It affirms what is good in the Cure by implication, and re-instates a sense of what their best music is\was really about. I think it's healthy to say why this album is crap, as well as venting frustration and disappointment. Hurrah for freedom of speech and thought...

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  127. ANd i wanted to say, that for me the only good thing that happened to The Cure these last four years is that Craig make this site alive with comments. Good Job.

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  128. Hyn...sarcasm is the low...etc etc

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  130. i just dont fucking get why some people are complaining in such a way (OLIVE). i mean it's okay not to like something, but really it is NOT crap! i bet my white ass that you who claim to be a musician can't do any better than ANY of the worst cure songs!! its okay not to like something, but its wrong to name it CRAP when it's someone's artistic creation.

    an what is with this falstaff dude!? is he like 10 or something? again i respect everyones opinion on not liking the album, i disagree but i respect it, but you people should respect other people's opinion too! calling crap something we like! and ranting about our tastes??

    album not creative enough!!??? FUCK ME NOW!! objectively this is one of the most creative albums the cure has ever made!! it's different and that's one of the reason the cure is great: they make different things. its original, you people just want Disintegration 2, and that would be UN-CREATIVE. just reapeting the same things. i HATE when people say stupid things.

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  131. I LOVE 4:13 Dream! Thank Jesus in heaven that the Bloodflowers days are behind us! I hope that Porl continues to annoy the shit out of half of you with his shrill guitar and that Robert pushes the rest of you out of the way with his loud vocals and pop crap. The sooner some of you just disappear, the better for the rest of us. Oh yea, did I mention that Bloodflowers is the worst album ever recorded in the history of music...wild mood swings and the cure album run a close second. I'm relieved that Robert tells you all to collectively fuck off and continues to record the music he wants to record. I had to suffer through the last three shit albums, now it's your turn.

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  132. Carlos for President!

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  133. 4:13 dream is far better than bloodflowers and s/t combined

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  134. Todd: You are more than welcome here. Don't let Cat or anyone else tell you otherwise. It would be a very boring Cure world if we all agreed on everything. I love Bloodflowers and 4:13, so take that! : )

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  135. I'm sure having four singles release before the album didn't exactly help sales.

    I was really look forward to this album after the Rome show, but the production kills it - it's just unpleasant to listen to. I can't really see any none-Cure fan being interested. Neither really matter, I've always got the Rome show to listen to, and it's actually making me start to appreciate 'The Cure'.

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  136. When are the sales for Cure albums ever good? Isn't it a given that sales would be soft? The masses are asses, remember?

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  137. the life performance of 4:13 doesn't sound any different then the actual album. He may sing a few parts in a lower register but that is the only real difference.

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  138. the falstaff dude...lol, yeah, like, I mean what is it, wassup, like, yeah, I mean so like totally over-rated, you know what I mean...

    why yes, miss Hilton...

    'objectively this isone of the most creative albums the Cure has ever made!!'

    Run that one by me again...in what way? And does that make it good, a success (imaginatively)? Many reviews find it a re-tread of older songs (I do too). WHat's so creative about that.

    And whose objctivity are we talking about? Yours presumably.

    You mean subjective.

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  139. For those about to abandon cure world over the singles and the album...don't let the door hit you where sweet jesus split you.

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  140. Wish overrated ?? i think not. Songs like Cut and Edge of the Deep Green Sea alone make it worthy of all it's given praise.

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  141. i think falstaff has started tippin the bottle because he's becoming more and more incoherent as the conversation goes on

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  142. Craig...my log-in has gone haywire a few times, had to re-register. I'm happy to take a hint if my account is being killed - I wont take offense or log-in under a different name. Just curious in case it's something else. No big deal wither way.

    Actually, I dont think dissenting voics *are* welcome here that much, fwiw. That's not a comment aimed at you, but at a minority of posters.
    Lip-service is paid, but there is a group who make it abundantly clear - hence my stance. They deserve to be argued with, and sometimes ridiculed. They dish it out often enough, so they should take it, too.

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  143. incoherent? Go on, tell me, it's because I dont like the new album...?

    (and if you didn't get my previous msg, it's called responding in a like manner...)

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  144. Hi Todd,

    I have no problem at all with your critiques. I love the album very muchly and am sorry you and some others do not. I did not mean to imply that I was offended by your critique. I was just suggesting that those who are unhappy might be making much ado about nothing, and it's time to move on. :-)

    Hi Craig,

    I did mean to imply that Todd or anyone else was not welcome; that's not my place on your lovely site anyway. :-)

    I am wondering why you singled me out personally? If I worded something too strongly, let me know.
    :-)


    PS The Scream is the best song ever made, EVER.

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  145. no has nothing to do with the new album... it's just you lost me with your last comment and i thought maybe the alcohol was taking affect

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  146. Falstaff: I don't now what the log in problems are, but it's no "banning" or anything like that.

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  147. I have to wonder where all this Falstaff-directed ire is coming from. Looking at this initial post, I see nothing there that warrants such flat-out hostility. He's just making some thoughtful observations which are shared, by the way, by a great many disappointed Cure fans, including me.

    Some of you should stop viewing this discussion as a moral issue. It's just some people talking about a damn band. If one person can say "genius" then the next has every right to use the word "crap" without being told to "quietly move along." Ridiculous.

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  148. Andee, I agree with you. Varied opinions should be embraced. :-)

    It's the subtle personalized implications that ignite the flame wars - from both sides of the fence.

    And suggesting that people move on is in no way a slight, though I can see how it can be construed as such. It's merely recommending that maybe some people have outgrown the Cure. It does happen. I outgrew U2, for instance.

    Anyway. :-)

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  149. To the naysayers......

    I'm sorry you don't like the album. That's quite a bummer. I'm thouroughly enjoying it myself.

    Sirensong has my heart....The Scream has my soul....and Freakshow is the grooviest tune I've ever heard.

    I have had permanent chills for over 48 hours now.

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  150. CPG, I love everything about you. :-)

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  151. george ate meat: pickles, pineapples and wheat.

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  152. Wish....overrated? Now you've crossed the line, Craig. >:(

    Seriously though, thanks for the clarification Cat. I think I understand what you meant.

    For the record, I do *like* the record, I just don't *love* it. And it doesn't help that one of the most passionate, wild, ferocious, and awesome songs Robert has ever written is completely indecipherable on the record (The Scream). Production has never killed a song for me the way it has this song. The Rome version knocked my socks off, but I can barely even listen to the album version without cringing in disgust and disappointment. And instead of the impassioned chaotic screams I heard in the Rome version, I start to hear the "raging Robert" screams from "Us or Them." And that's NOT a good thing.

    Just my 2 cents.

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  153. todd, sometimes my manner of expression is brash and i need to be reminded to rein it in a bit, so it's my fault, if anyone's. i truly meant no harm by my words. :-)

    i understand you FULLY about the production/mix, actually. as i have stated before, i have issues with it. on some songs it's great, and on others it's quite shit. i don't think it's so bad on the scream, though, but it could be better, i agree. the scream, for me, is the MAJOR highlight of the album, even better than UTS, although it's prob not fair to compare them. they both have their unique place.

    i love love LOVE this album. i liked aspects of TC a lot, and BF for me is stunning, and WMS is fun fun fun, but this album... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

    classic.

    i could change my mind later, though... but doubtful. after a dozen listens, i am loving it more and more. and for me, it beats wish my several gazillion miles.

    cheers todd.. i hope there are no hard feelings. :-)

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  154. If you ask me, I think the reason the new album is tanking is because of how screwed up the last year was put together in terms of scheduling.

    All the singles were released in May, June, July and August. I seriously doubt there are any radio stations still playing any of the singles. So you ain't going to get any promotion out of the radio stations.

    Then the tour was back in May and June, a good five months before the album is due to be released. So you ain't going to get any promotion from that.

    And I have to believe the fact that the album was delayed exactly 147 times isn't really helping matters.

    Really really bad management over the past 18 months.

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  155. wish overrated?!

    now i'm afraid we'll have to box, craig!

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  156. Basically, I'd say the sales weakness stems entirely from virtually publicity or marketing by Universal. I remember when self-titled came out and there were ads on the TV and in magazines, but now there's absolutely nothing. The only thing I could see boosting sales now (in theory) would be Pitchfork giving the album an extremely high score, prompting tons of hipsters to go out and buy it. Naturally, that isn't going to happen, but without Universal pimping the album, this may end up being their worst-selling effort ever, despite the quality being substantially greater than that of The Cure of Wild Mood Swings. At the end of the day, though, it's partially Robert's own fault for only releasing an album every four years when people other than huge fans like us have completely forgotten about the band. A high-selling record depends on a variety of factors, not just promotion. Doesn't help that Americans are stupid and listen to garbage like Pink.

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  157. This has me a bit surprised....and I'm not quite sure I believe it.

    But IF this projection comes true, it's because of torrents. I totally believe that. Theives! Lowlives!


    BUY THE ALBUM! SUPPORT THE CURE!

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  158. That's what happens when you make yet another lyrics-driven record that sounds just like WMS. Same bland sound, same type of dumb, passionless songs without any hooks or emotion, same poor production. And if that wasn't enough, Robert declared jihad on the keyboards for some reason. Yes, it's over.

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  159. no please stop with the never-ending discussion about the keyboards..it's not "magic", if a song is weak..still weak with or without keys.

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  160. caterpillargirl2, I have to say that your viewpoint is probably invalid. By that logic, all music would be selling very poorly, but Pink's record is projected to sell nearly 200,000 copies this week. If torrents were a serious issue, they'd be affecting all bands, and not just the Cure. First week sales in the hundred-thousand area have long been a standard for a #1 debut record, from long before the time of torrents. While I believe that torrents probably do affect OVERALL sales of a record, first week sales mostly come from the serious fans of a band.

    Personally, I torrent virtually all my music. Instead of wasting money buying albums I haven't heard, I download them, listen to them, and if they're good, I buy them. If they're bad, I delete them. Torrenting only costs a band a sale with me if their album sucks, and blindly condemning torrents is just uninformed of you.

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  161. No hard feelings, Cat. :)

    I hope I can get past the production someday. For now, it's gonna be difficult.

    And I agree, The Scream is probably the highlight of the album, or should've been. UTS is gorgeous, but The Scream is the hardest, most ferocious thing The Cure have ever done, except maybe for Pornography.

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  162. I'm sorry to say that I will not be purchasing this album ('cept maybe when it hits the used CD shelves). Two reasons:

    1) Like 99.9% of all new rock/pop albums being released these days, the audio quality of 4:13 Dream is atrocious. There are no dynamics to speak of... everything is just... loud. It's quite a shame too that this album would fall victim to the 'loudness war', because I think this is the most brilliant collection of songs from The Cure since 1989.


    2) I want to support the artist, not a record label. Everyone knows that the band itself gets next to nothing from album sales... so I will give my support by continuing to go to Cure shows and buy Cure merchandise. After ending their affiliation with Electra, I think that The Cure made a very bad move by signing with Geffen/Universal... after 30 years in the business, they should have enough money in the bank and the name recognition to be able to do quite well for themselves on an independent label or by self-releasing all their new music.

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  163. Zeph, more than us disagreeing, I think we are on the same page.

    In this day and age, it has to do with fanbase.........the fans WILL go out and purchase, and others will get torrents and still enjoy the way the FANS do, but for a pirated dollar, never intending to buy, just enjoy.

    And I do the same thing as you with torrents. If it sucks I know not to buy it. If it rocks, I purchase. I did that with Mogwai's Young Team. But it's a value that you and I have. It's not a given that people will go out and support the song/album they just heard for free just because they love it. It's a value and a show appreciation.

    Torrents are bad for artists, whether their good for consumers or not.

    It's changed how artists have had to present their music.....and along with what others have said, TMU is not really doing their part for The Cure as much as I think they should in this aspect. I think The Cure are a legend band and deserve to be treated as one. NME thinks so.....European MTV thinks so........THE FANS FROM ALL THESE YEARS THINK SO.

    This is why I can't stand the nay-sayers. I think The Cure are a legend that deserve some fucking respect. Olive, Falstaff........are you seriously telling me you didn't enjoy UTS, Freakshow, The Hungry Ghost?????

    Anyhow, I'm getting off topic...

    The Cure have done their part where TMU has slacked. The 4tour was a success from what I can tell, and the releasing of the singles was a great idea IMO ....I don't formally know how good it worked, but it was an idea based on knowledge of how things are this day and age, and trying to do some planning to battle it.

    I personally think the singles were very good. And I loved each and every one of them. Who knows how many new fans were brought on board to purchase the imminate ablum? I think presenting the singles before the album was released was a brilliant attempt to get the attention of people casually listening and downloading. So when the album came out with all four singles, new fans said "HEY...those four songs rock, I think I need a copy of the album."

    I know that scenario happened, thousands of times across the world. People really like The Cure, and there are those that LOVE The Cure....either way, it's about values.

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  164. Don't forget that the last album also had a tour set up to promote it. This one doesn't.

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  165. "Porl isn't adding that much"
    "he's wasted and innappropriate here"
    "They deserve to be argued with, and sometimes ridiculed"
    "people like you who kneel at everything Robert does"

    It sounds to me like some people are "protesting" merely to "stir the pot"...

    zephyraris said...
    "Doesn't help that Americans are stupid"

    Stop stirring the pot zephyr! lol. <3
    I'd like to think that I'm part of the intelligent minority of that country... but that's just my subjective opinion! :)


    Well said caterpillargirl!!!

    If I may expand a little upon what you said.
    I think ultimately, there are some people who still feel a connection to the music and to the band, even if the production on the album isn't so perfect(!). That connection, in turn, creates insane and unfailing loyalty. There are others who've LOST that connection and can't understand for the life of them why anyone would still be interested in this band, or find anything of merit in their newer work...
    I think it's why The Cure have always done what they thought was right, regardless of the opinions of others. You're never going to please everyone; all you can do is (try) to remain true to yourself. I believe that they've accomplished that much.

    As far as the album sales go, my theory is that since the singles sold well (#1 on billboard etc), in conjunction with the (mostly) positive reviews (exposure) from various media, this album will sell fairly well. Also, the hardcore people are buying mutliple copies... So what if the first weeks sales aren't great? What matters, I think, are the overall sales figures.

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  166. There are many reasons why the sales are lower than previous Cure CDs

    Some are obvious:
    1. Tour timing ie no support tour
    2. "It's the economy, stupid" America is going in the shitter so fast it is frightening (outside observation from the Great White North)
    3. No promo by Geffen/TMU

    Now the less obvious reason is that America more and more simply worships Celebrity. Robert and The Cure are about as anti-celebrity as it gets! Robert is doing ONE "offical" promo interview? That's his choice though. He hated the 1989-1992 period when The Cure were the biggest band in the world (see lyrics to END). He does not want celebrity, but it is celebrity that sells big #'s of CDs, DVDs movie tickets, etc.

    Like Fuk, zero talent shits like Brittany, Paris, Jessica Simpson, Lohan, Clay Aiken, et al. sell bizzillions of records, books, movies just because they will do anything to stay in the public eye CONSTANTLY ... get married, get arrested, get divorced, have children, become gay, return straight, not wear panties and flash the puss, marry famous people,divorce famous people, hang out with presidents (Bono -mr. jesus complex), yadda, yadda.

    And our dear Robert does one interview upon record release, releases a CD every 4 yrs, tours every few years? Spends the rest of the time watching footy on the tube, walking the Brighton beaches with the missus ... No wonder Geffen won't spend a nickle on promo!!! Robert needs to go gay, or start dating Keira Knightly or stop wearing jockey shorts .... then maybe The Cure will sell some records in America.

    There's my tirade for the month.
    4:13 is a v. good CD, if people don't buy it too, their loss ...
    Looking forward to Nightmare 14 in 2009!

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  167. A young ventriliquist is touring the clubs and one night he's doing a show in a small club in Paris. With his dummy on his knee, he's going through his usual dumb blonde jokes when Olive in the fourth row stands on her chair and starts shouting,"I've had enough your stupid blonde jokes. What makes you think you can stereotype blondes like me that way?What's the colour of a persons hair have to do with their worth as a human person?It's guys like you that keep girls like me from getting respected at work and in the community, because you and others like you continue to discriminate against, not only blondes, but women in general...and all in the name of humour!"
    The ventriliquist is embarrassed and begins to apologise, when Olive yells,"You stay out of this mister! I'm talking to that little fucking jerk on your knee!"

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  168. Falstaff, you're not the brightest crayon in the pack, are you? In fact, if you were any dumber, we'd have to water you twice a week.

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  169. "And our dear Robert does one interview upon record release, releases a CD every 4 yrs, tours every few years? Spends the rest of the time watching footy on the tube, walking the Brighton beaches with the missus ... "

    sounds like a dream to me...

    i like the record. i don't care if anyone buys it or not or even if anyone likes it or not.

    if you like it good for you. if you don't who cares....

    if we all wanted to talk about the songs and the production (which i think does the songs no justice and borders on terrible) and stuff like that then that could be fun.

    if people just want to talk trash and conjecture and about shit that don't matter then we're all wasting each others time

    etc. etc.

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  170. They made this album because they had to. It's their job.
    They don't need to be original or creative : they know thousand of fans will buy it anyway.
    They use the good all stuffs and mix them to create something that seems new.
    Did you hear about the "random cure songs generator" ?

    They don't even take the time to mix, what for ?

    Do you think Robert cares about us ? No No No
    he is only marketing when he claims "this time it's the last album" or "if you don't like this you don't like the cure", etc etc...
    he was genius in music now he is genius in marketing.

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  171. '"Porl isn't adding that much"
    "he's wasted and innappropriate here"
    "They deserve to be argued with, and sometimes ridiculed"
    "people like you who kneel at everything Robert does"

    It sounds to me like some people are "protesting" merely to "stir the pot"...'

    Helsa...the first two comments were about Porl, the third was about fans, not the Cure. The fourth was someone else's quote (though I agree with it). Please get it right .

    Aaaarrrghhh!! I doesn't have to be black and white...unfailing loyalty *or* disconnection. That's ridiculous. You just take what you hear on merit, and dont make up your mind beforehand. But they seem to be sinking lower and lower with eacn new album release. It matters to anyone who cares about their music, because it's sad. And maybe, just maybe, Robert's ego is massaged by finding a younger, more unquestioning audience and simply trading on wackiness? But if the songs are no good you're just left with image and hubbub...and traditionally these things matter most to a young audience. Odd, when Robert talks about being self-aware and knowing he's not 20 any more.

    I listened to UTS late last night, nice an drelaxed, and this morning, and was tryign not to laugh as all the tinkle noises ticked their boxes...it's like a piss-take. And it's not funny any more.

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  172. Those are projected US sales...you have an election on the way and your country is financially fucked(for now)...no wonder those numbers are low.People aren't interested.. Best wait and see 3 months from now, see what happens then..things might even pick up a bit for Christmas(Without You)....

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  173. A sort of summary ..older fans can be a burden.

    Too much expectation, saddled with memories from 20 years ago (25+ in my case), rose-tinted glasses and all that, not to mention more developed tastes and broader knowledge. That's the downside for a band, and it can be wearing to meet their expectations, especially if some of them want to keep you in a box. On the other hand, they probably paid a bit more attention than most, supported the band when no-one else wanted to know (anyone else remember when Robert was sending out msgs scrawled in pencil just after Killing and Arab came out?) and generally spread the word a bit. Never mind sales, concerts etc. And no-one owes anyone anything, agreed.

    So yeah, you get bleating older nay-sayers like me, which can be annoying - but this also means not just blindly accepting any old crap when it's dished-up, just for the sake of being positive or because it's part an online social scene. Ok, so I find the lurvely muchly splurges of emption emtic (sorry, cat) but that's just me, and I'm not pretending that's objective. But nor does it detract from these songs being shit.

    In my heart of hearts I think this album is very immature, ill-conceived, weak on songs, production, musicality, skill, arrangement, and mastering. Just about everything you can think of. And I think it's sickening that it seems to be aimed at adolescent self-indulgents, if not in age, then in mentality. Why shouldn't the doubting voice be heard as much as the approving one?
    And yes, it is killing their legacy stone dead by piling crap ontop of crap, eroding affection, and making me turn cynical as to Robert's motives. You can put up with large egos if they're producing brilliant work, but this drivel...? Producing an invitation to live in a closed-world of delicious sprites and ghostly fugues is one thing (the social scene again) but you wake up pretty sharp-ish with a cold yank back to reality if the songs are shit. Either that or stick your fingers in your ears.

    You can argue all day along about the other stuff, but the songs are just not there. To those that liek the album, I salute you. Part of me thinks cello-knock-off tones on a six-string baritone bass and wind-chimes goes only so far, part of me thinks good for those people that dont think any of this, and just jump up and down and go 'yay'.

    Good for the 'yayers'. Wish I was one too. But I'd need to cut off my ears...

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  174. what's that, you say...? It's the sound of the previous msg falling on thusands of deaf ears, lol.....

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  175. Years ago, a fan commented that WMS, had it been released by any other band, might have been tabbed as "album of the year." Same scenario with 4:13. If 4:13 is any band's debut album, they are legendary overnight...

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  176. Come on now...who put the new Tokyo Hotel cd in falstaff's 4:13 Dream cd case...not funny.

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  177. let's hope the hypothetic Dark Album would come up somedays, and that is not another Robert's tricks.

    (he must be laughing loud from his home)

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  178. I actually disagree with a handful of your points, but I'll keep this quick. Torrents actually generally benefit an artist. Why do you think its always the label bitching about torrenting and not the artists? Because album sales line the pockets of the label, not the band. The average contract puts a dollar in the pocket of the band for every record sold at $10-20. That's pathetic. However, if an album is torrented like mad, then a lot of different people will hear it and get into the band, so when they go on tour, they sell more tickets, and tours are where artists make all their money. The way that this can negatively affect music is in that if record sales go down, the label has less reason to support a band or album, so there is less money available for promotion. I definitely feel like the albums sales problem will stem from sources other than torrenting.

    Also, as an American (well technically Canadian-born naturalized American, but whatever) I feel like I will never be surprised by the levels of stupidity displayed by the average American.

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  179. Here's my single chime in on "issue"... Those of us who do enjoy 4:13 Dream, let us rejoice in the fact that we have yet another Cure album that we can enjoy! :) For those who can't get down with it... Sorry. I suppose you're missing out. :\

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  180. Interesting with the Guardian article
    saying that Robert was more or less conned\forced into releasing the album in two halves. If true, it doesn't excuse this album, but it might help explain it.

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  181. This is is bugging me so I have one more thing to say. I tried to let it go.......

    The ideology that "some of those who are enjoying the album" are doing it for internet social reasons is the biggest load of shit I've ever heard in my life!!!

    I've been a fan since 1989 and didn't even get an internet connection at home until Jan 2007. I'm here because I love The Cure's music, not because I have a need to fit into a groove somewhere on the web. Craig has a blog full of resources for the fan who wants to hear, see, and read more about the band. I've met some cool peeps, here....but that's not why I like the album. Duh!

    Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinions.....I can respect that. Why can't people respect the fact that some of us REALLY think that The Cure have created something great? I guess I just still wonder why people who think The Cure haven't had a good album since 1982 would even be hanging around a Cure blog???

    Also, Zeph, making comments about the stupidity of Americans IS in fact just a way to stir the pot. Why? Are you bored? Totally off-topic, narrow-minded, biggoted, and RUDE!

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  182. caterpillar...i said it was a factor for some people..*which it patently is*. It may not be your reasons, bully for you, but it's obviously a part of it for some people here - a quick glance round any thread on any given day shows that.

    I have no problem with people thinking the album is something great, in one sense. In other ways, I think they must be very easily pleased, or cloth-eared, or under-exposed to lots of other music, or blinkered, or clinging vainly on in the name of fan-dom, or in the grip of Robert-worship (which is pretty widespread here, maybe not surprisngly) or whatever.

    There's this peristent idea that I 'hang around' here. i dont. I pop up once in a blue moon to see who else might share similar views - you know, those things that you object so strongly to - and see what the craic is. Most times I come away disappointed at the general level, the facile element, and the dogged belief that something wondrful is happening, when it really isn't IMO.

    And to just to set Swifty off (and he certainly aint no Jonathan) - if he can bring himself to leave the jokes websites he keeps cutting and pasting from - I keep thinking of the japanese soldier wondering round inthe forest long after the war has finished, only in this case its admiring fan boys.

    Yes, it has switched from the album being bad, to why so many people praise it. I know they think they hear somethign I dont. Or maybe it's the other way round. And why should I b surprised at other people's taste? Because, basically, I htought fans of the Cure have\had taste. Now I dont think many of the younger ones do. If that's patronising so what, fuck it. People seem pleased as punch with pastiche, an inisipid, tsteless, moribund replica, in fact... fuck all. So I dont just depair at the album, I despair at many of the fans too, maybe more. But again, fuck it, I realise I'm not going to change one single mind. You wouldn't believe how genuinely amazed I am that people accept this cack, and even think to put it up there with earlier albums. My god, what utter, crass tastelessnes! How very, very wrong!

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  183. ..from a state point of view. Most other ways, I couldn't care less. People watch MTV...so what. Just dont ask me to accept it uncritically or tacitly approve it by saying nothing...that's all

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  184. the more i listen to the album, though i do still enjoy it, the more i might be coming round a bit to some of falstaff's point of view.

    not cuz he/she's(?) convincing though, but rather cuz he might be right.....

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  185. Nathan...'he', last time I looked :)

    The only reason I've bleated on some very, very much...is that people seem up in arms at the very idea it might be a crap album. So I've come at it every which way, from every angle I can think of...because to me it's blindingly obvious its awful. A few listens and you just know. Your ears tell you.

    This is hilarious, really. It's a bit like flies debating the brownness or greenness of a great big shit in a field. You realise you're being drawn into a debate about the relative steaminess or subtle scents...for Christ sakes...it's a big lump of steaming doo-doo. Never mind who came up with it, East 17 or the Cure.

    Really, I'm embarrassed to be talking about it at this length, so I'll stop. There's not enough there to warrant the attention. Those who can listen all the way through each song deserve a medal (or something).
    It's like a weird sect...perfectly normal to those who live inside, trapped in the cure-world perhaps, but bizarre outside. And possibly that's where the attraction lies. It's seductive, if you subscribe. But I want good songs, not a cutey-pie wonderment world built on the back of songs that aren't very good. Hendrix had the electric church and various other things going on - and the music took you there, not the ramblings or pyrotecnics. This album's songs dont earn the right to be bombastic or angry or clever or sarcastic - they have little skill, and no brilliance. And no imagination - that thing Robert holds dearest, we're led to believe.

    I think its music most 15 year-olds will grow out of inside a year or two, seriously. It's bad Peter Pan, as done by adults.

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  186. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  187. It doesn't help a bit, when people who post in here are initiating torrents to download the album. I just saw it.

    "Created by .......... 2 hours ago

    1. "Underneath the Stars" – 6:17
    2. "The Only One" – 3:57
    3. "The Reasons Why" – 4:35
    4. "Freakshow" – 2:30
    5. "Sirensong" – 2:22
    6. "The Real Snow White
    " – 4:43
    7. "The Hungry Ghost" – 4:29
    8. "Switch" – 3:44
    9. "The Perfect Boy" – 3:21
    10. "This. Here and Now. With You" – 4:06
    11. "Sleep When I'm Dead" – 3:51
    12. "The Scream" – 4:37
    13. "It's Over" – 4:16

    Ripped with EAC from Original CD. Includes CUE and log files."

    Don't try to convince me that you are "promoting" the album, because you are not!

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