From Spin: "For the most part, Hook is generous to the bands that arose at the same
time as Joy Division. He lets one famous group have it, though. "I don't
think the Cure
liked us," he writes, thinking about a 1979 show supporting the
goth-rock standard-setters. "I think they resented us in some way,
because we'd managed to stay cool, credible, and independent and they'd,
well, sort of sold out a bit . . . I think they thought, Wish we were Joy Division." (Thanks Aaron)
Update (Jan. 29th, 2013): Lol Tolhurst has posted this response on his Facebook - "I don't normally add my two cents to stuff but I understand Peter Hook has a new book out wherein he speaks about a certain 1979 gig that Joy Division supported the Cure at ? Well I remember that particular gig too and my memory is somewhat different from Pete's. See we arranged a show at the Marquee club in London for every Sunday for a month ( called it a month of Sundays I think) and picked every band that opened for us. Because we, LIKED them and wanted to help them out. Not for any reason other than that." (Thanks Burton_)
And a few more comments from Lol: "And
although I may be a little biased lets not forget that The Cure still
have the preeminent bassist of our generation in Simon. And he's also
the hunkiest still!
Dont
worry I take no offense .Just wanted to set the record straight here
because as time passes its harder to verify the facts and I just wanted
Cure fans to know the truth here from someone who was most certainly
involved haha!
And
Sell outs? I think Robert has done a most marvelous job over the years
of making sure that the Cure were the LEAST sellout band possible .He's
always operated with the utmost integrity as concerns that side of the
music business . And to insinuate otherwise is absolutely false and just
plain bollocks too!"
And as to Peter's "sell out" claim, Alan reminds me of this gem - The Sunkist ad from New Order.
Update (Feb. 1st, 2013): Lol's comments have been picked up by Spinner and Spin.
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IMHO a sell out is someone that is sucking blood from a 30 year old dead corpse like he's been doing with JD. Can't he do something of his own? No, he must rely on JD. All the time.
ReplyDeleteJoy Division is his own! What are you talking about? His and Ian's contribution is what makes the Joy Division sound. It's just unfortunate that his best writing partner decided to kill himself. if you wanted to play your own songs, would you care what somebody had to say?
DeleteWell, the Cure did a their Reflection concerts. Peter Hook has talked about touring with every album he ever wrote for. While his band is still playing some Joy Division songs, they are now mainly focused on playing early New Order songs. He has mentioned that once he's gone through every album, he would likely retire and sees it as sort of one last run around the track.
Deletethe book is quite a good read although hooky really seems to hate barney.
ReplyDeleteBitter and jealous. If he knew the kind of admiration Robert has for Ian...
ReplyDeleteJoy Division isn't 1/4 the band The Cure is, and The Cure never sold out.
ReplyDeleteJoy Division never made a bad song. . . But the cure has at least two entire bad albums. And you're telling me Dredd Song from Judge Dredd movie soundtrack isn't selling out?? Surely you must agree that letting commercials use your songs for Marketing must be considered "selling out." Pictures of you in a cannon camera commercial ? Don't get me wrong I obsessively love the Cure and have for almost thirty years, but they definitely have "sold out"
DeleteNew Order and Burger King. Almost all bands end up doing it.
DeleteVoodooman93, I think there's been interviews with Robert Smith where he states that he hates that the record label has used his music in commercials. That he was slowly trying to get back to rights to the Cure music in North America so that things like that would happen in the future.
DeleteI like both bands and I like Peter Hook but sometimes he really shoots off his mouth without thinking.
Voodooman93, I don't think being part of a movie soundtrack is selling out. I quite how "Dredd Song" pumps me up, though I am a bit embarrassed by it.
DeleteJoy Division have lots of songs that I find terribly boring. Also, the band only got a chance to make 2 full albums plus some singles. Sorry that Robert didn't hang himself in 1982 for a similar track record.
Robert made clear that, in order to get ownership of his back catalogue, he had to agree to The Cure's music being used in 2 ads. He didn't want it.
JD only existed for a couple of years. it's easy not to "sell out" if you never really made it while you were together.
ReplyDeleteWho is Peter Hook?
ReplyDeleteTry Google or study more about music legends!
DeleteAppearing in an attention/ratings grabbing Baywatch video, complete with The Hoff, on Top of the Pops performing 'Regret' on the beach in California was really cool and non-sellout Peter...
ReplyDeleteYep, integrity intact.
Oh yeah and what about your ex-wife pussy-whipping you into being her houseband on the lamentable 'Mrs Merton'?
You are one cool cat Peter.
Seventeen Seconds, Faith, Pornography...complete sell out...
ReplyDeleteThey want to be like Joy Division in 79, problably true, but "sell out" thing?...uhmmm..... this is only a book anyway.....who knows? and who cares?
ReplyDeletenever mind that, but he's tone deaf? wow...
ReplyDeleteJoy division got to be well talked about cause of Ian's suicide. That's all. I think for artists such as Robert is was more of an attitude thing than a talent thing...Cure sell out? Haha... If tgat means fame...well yes so what!. JD is just a shadow of one good album...this guy makes me laugh! .
ReplyDeleteFrom the perspective of a thirty + Cure fan, and massive Joy Division/ Peter Hook fan, it was just an opinion on how he felt at the time that he played with the cure in 1979. Not describing the way both the Cure and New Order eventually "Sell Out" by makin music motivated purely for profit and Fame. And Peter Hook has every right to play Joy Division on the road or whichever way he sees fit. The majority of Joy Division is his writing. He wrote the mainly bass driven riffs that Ian sings to. I know how I'd feel about someone criticizing me for playing my own songs. . .
ReplyDeleteAnd Jessica Bunny, Joy Division was very popular in their day. Selling out many shows towards the end. And their albums were precedent setting sonically. True Ian's act pushed their legend up a bit. But they are revered for their unbelievable music contribution. The Cure is as big and prominent as they are for making radio friendly singles and playing massive stadium tours for 20+ years. They were pretty obscure and cult like up until Japanese Whispers or really even Head on The Door is where they became more mainstream. It wasn't until Bob starting writing pop crap like Friday, and Mint car that he Blatantly sold out, before that the hits were still written from a pure uncompromising artistic place. But who cares enjoy both bands, the music is what it's all about, Joy Division never made a bad song. . . Period
ReplyDeleteWould JD be that "influential" if Ian was still alive? OK, they were quite nice (never made a bad song? That's too silly), but I'm sure they could be forgotten by now if it wasn't this dead celebrity cult that has been going on for decades. I have the same opinion on The Doors, for example. They both have merits, but things would have been very different IMHO if these "icons" were still alive.
ReplyDeletePeter Hook has the right to do anything he wants, including to write books saying silly things.
OK folks, I am a huge JD fan and Cure fan ... both are in my 5 Fav Artists. To see where I am coming from musically here are my 5:
ReplyDeleteThe Cure
JD
Pixies
Pavement
The Beatles
Now, denigrating JD because Hooky is a bit of a Lout is really immature.
You have to understand Hooky, he is not like Robert. If Robert and Hooky went to a British footy match, Robert would cheer for his team, enjoy himself, have a couple pints and head home chatting about the game with his mates. Whereas Hooky is a pure hooligan ... he’d get to the game drunk, sneak in several cans and heckle anyone in sight, and likely start a fight, regardless of his team winning or losing. He is what he is... a blue-collar hooligan, he has never changed. Whereas Robert is a middle class background guy who frankly has become a real classy guy over the years IMO. He is introspective and intelligent .. Hooky isn’t, but still he is a great artist.
Now for those who are too young to really know JD’s material. They were a once in a lifetime band. Only 2 records released ... and then the tragedy ended it all prematurely. Part of the JD legend is that their ONLY 2 records are BOTH hailed as top 100 records of the modern rock era; and on every credible Alt Rock critics’ top 10 of all time. That is like a football team that is in existence for 2 seasons and wins the Super Bowl BOTH years and then the team folds. That is how special JD was .... plus you have a couple of singles that were not on those records – Love Will Tear Us Apart and Atmosphere, which are 2 of the greatest alt rock songs ever IMO.
I am willing to bet that Robert would agree that The Cure’s first 2 records were not in the same league as JDs .... Let’s be honest listen to Unknown Pleasures and then listen to 3 Imaginary Boys, they were not in the same league YET ....Robert really did not find his voice or reach his full potential as writer and recording artist until until The Head on the Door ... and then reached his zenith on Disintegration. n Robert’s side, the material from the middle period of The Cure totally blows New Order out of the water. So really what I am saying is that Robert/The Cure took a little longer to attain greatness, whereas JD was a freak of nature and reached it instantly ... maybe that is why they were fated to implode so soon .... they burnt too brightly, too soon. Robert’s track record is much longer and hence is greater as a total collection of works. Conclusion they are both pinnacles of post-punk alt rock and Hooky is just being Hooky. Does not change the amazing legacies of these two brilliant bands! JD won the 100 meter sprint .... Robert/The Cure won the the Marathon.
Couldn't have put it any better.
DeleteHow could the PIxies and Pavement coexist with the Cure and Joy Division on your top 5? the Cure and JD make/made incredibly emotionally sincere, confessional, connective music, often with incredibly lovely melodies, while the pixies and pavement are typical too-cool-to-be romantic or lyrically-direct indie snobs who purposely make snarky, ironic, angular art-for-art's sake music.
DeleteI am glad I checked back in - that was funny Q! I guess I am bi-polar LOL!
DeleteNah, I'm like RS ... how the hell can you write a song like The Love Cats and Friday AND ALSO write FTEOTDBS and Plainsong et al??? Answer human beings are complicated ... who wants to eat steak EVERYDAY? Sometimes fish is better.
BTW The Pixies opened up for The Cure at Toronto on 1989 Prayer Tour. RS likes them too!
I know and I hated it. I saw the tour here in ny (nj technically)...i will never get the pixies. But all those cure songs are emotional and real and sincere in some way, and all are deeply melodic. None of them are "girl you're so groovy, ah ha ha ha!" Fuck the pixies.
DeleteTotally subjective point of view there, but then again you are entitled to it.Would those 2 Joy Division albums be viewed as masterpieces if Ian Curtis hadn't commited suicide and they'd carried on , we'll never know..You can't compare apples and oranges..they are both great bands in their own way...There is NO WAY the Cure had sold out in 1979(which is what PH is saying here if i am not mistaken),only because they were just getting started... and let's not forget New Order were supporting The Cure, not the other way round.The fact remains that over the years, Peter Hook has come accross as a bit of a knob, and he's not letting anyone down with that quote.
ReplyDeleteAnswer - Yes, they are what they are. Masterpieces.
DeleteAs I said ... Hooky is what he is. I would not get bent out of shape about anything he says. Bernard respects The Cure, but he's a thoughtful guy. Hooky, well, he was a great bassist and songwriting collaborator ...
Getting upset by such things is a complete loss of time...
Deleteof course i meant Joy Division, not New Order...
ReplyDeleteI didn't mean to but now I want to read that book! :-)
ReplyDeleteit's a good book. and funny!
DeleteI saw Joy Divison live once and New Order several times over the years. I can honestly say New Order never came close and that isn't because of what happened to Ian Curtis. Unfortunately we'll never know what heights Joy Divison would have reached but I've never forgotten how mesmerising Ian was and believe had he lived, would have continued to be influential.
ReplyDeleteAs for Peter Hook, he always seems to have opinions, none very interesting imo. His character didn't come over that well in Control either.
Remember reading last summer that Robert had said in an interview (about the festivals) that he didn't think New Order would've supported The Cure, had Hooky still been in the band, so his comment probably wouldn't be any suprise to him!
Wow you are one lucky/fortunate woman!
DeleteI saw N.O. once too .... but was there to see Echo & the Bunnymen ... another great band of that era!
Agree, love The Bunnymen too!
Deletemy top 5
ReplyDeleteTHE CURE
THE MISSION
GENE LOVES JEZEBEL
Siouxsie & The Banshees
Soda Stereo
Soda Stereo! They're on my top 5 too. ;) - The Cure are the first in my list...
ReplyDeleterobert bad mouths everybody as well .. or at least he used to.
ReplyDeleteI love Joy Division and the Cure. I can honestly say that i would probably not want to hear a new joy division song would sound like if it had come out in the last 10 years had they lasted as a band. It's their mythology and mystique that continues to propel them into the stratosphere of iconic bands. The cure have continued their relevance although i don't get too excited when i hear that new music is coming from them, that way i can be pleasantly surprised by one or two tracks.
ReplyDeletefrom NME:
ReplyDeletePeter Hook: 'My dream is for David Guetta to remix Blue Monday'
lol
Don't think he is totally wrong, Robert admired Ian. But NO also admired The Cure in general and Robert in particular...
ReplyDeleteCure loves Love Will Tear Us Apart!
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc1TZ-VSjj4
You all have pretty much said what needs to be said. But, if you want to talk about sellouts, I distinctly remember going to Coachella in 2005, extremely excited to see New Order. Half-way through their set, my friend looks over at me and says "Is this the f**king Beach Boys, or something?". We promptly went to a different stage and saw The Faint (who were fun and entertaining):P
ReplyDeleteLol Tolhurst on Levinhurst's facebook page: "I don't normally add my two cents to stuff but I understand Peter Hook has a new book out wherein he speaks about a certain 1979 gig that Joy Division supported the Cure at ? Well I remember that particular gig too and my memory is somewhat different from Pete's. See we arranged a show at the Marquee club in London for every Sunday for a month ( called it a month of Sundays I think) and picked every band that opened for us. Because we, LIKED them and wanted to help them out. Not for any reason other than that".
ReplyDeleteI did find this book a pretty good read, quite amusing in parts, although Hooky does come across as rather bitter in places, which is a shame - don't think him and Barney will ever share a friendly drink again! Think Hooky has made a few bitchy comments about The Cure over the years hasn't he?
ReplyDeleteHave seen New Order play live a couple times over the last year or so and thought they were superb. Robert and Barney still seem to get on OK as well judging by Robert's comments when they played the same festival last year.
While a member of Revenge, Hook said of Nirvana "I wouldn't pay them in fucking washers".
ReplyDeleteThat was said around 22 years ago. The guy has always been a complete miserable cunt with nothing good to say about anyone.
I don't think members of Revenge, whether Hook or anyone else, has any business commenting on ANY other band, nevermind Nirvana.
Does Peter Hook remember holding up a $ sign in the studio while Bernard sang altered lyrics for Blue Monday to make a SUNKIST commercial? Apparently not.
ReplyDeleteI'm so tired of the whole "sellout" argument. If the music is even for sale it's a sellout. It's expected to make money. The only time I consider someone a sellout is when they endorse a product they wouldn't even use, or clearly write material with the intent of changing their image to something more mainstream, which is more like posing than selling out. Anyway, I don't consider the cure or joy division/new order to be sellouts, but I do consider Peter Hook bastardizing both his past band's back catalogs live as The Light to be completely selling out. He's cashing in on his past status with a bunch of musicians that had nothing to do with it while New Order still exists, is performing live, and apparently plan to record future releases without him. Peter Hook is scumy.
ReplyDeleteLol! Youre awesome!
ReplyDeleteWait a minute Lol just called Simon a hunk, is lol gay?
ReplyDeleteAgreed Simon is a stud.
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I suppose that group rivalry tends to end up as some kind of willy-waving escapade. But I seem to remember that Robert Smith's favourite song, or one of his favourites, was JD's The Eternal. So I guess he must have been quite impressed with Joy Division.
ReplyDeleteWhile many people love the early Cure albums, do people really think that The Lovecats or Happy the Man are really seriously cool songs? I don't think that Joy Division would ever have sung something like that!