Robert has posted an update on the official site. More on the "free music" debate.
Update: Trent Reznor talks about "free music" and his business model. (Thanks V)
Update 2: Aversion and Prefix have picked up the story.
(Thanks Kate and John)
Update 3: Cuchara Sonica has an article about this. Mad Bob fills us in: "i found this awful mexican-spanish article about Robert's free music latest debate. They said Robert is afraid of stop to earning these big amounts of money because now, his talent is gone away since a while and he´s not capable anymore of doing great music as he did before, so that´s why he´s worried about the size of his pocket." (Thanks Mad Bob)
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Looks like he found (and toggled) the Caps Lock key again. ;)
ReplyDeleteOh well, it was nice while it lasted. : )
ReplyDeleteI TOO HAVE FOUND SAID BUTTON! WELL SAID AGAIN RSX! OF COURSE ALL MUSIC HAS VALUE - BUT YOU WOULDN'T PAY ME ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY TO SUFFER CRYSTAL CASTLES AGAIN!
ReplyDeleteROBERT IS ENTIRELY ACCURATE IN HIS ARGUMENT. IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT NEW RECORD SALES. ROBERT AND THE CURE MUST BE SEEING EVER DIMINISHING ROYALTIES FROM SALES OF THE BACK CATALOGUE AS "NEW" FANS SEEK THE MUSIC OVER THE WEB.
SO, ROBERT DOESN'T GET TO SIT IN THE SUN WITH A BEER BUT KEEPS PLUGGING AWAY BY PLAYING LIVE, A MEDIUM IN WHICH HE CAN MAINTAIN CONTROL AND INCOME!
YOU JUST NEED TO FEEL FOR THOSE BANDS STARTING OUT THAT DESERVE TO DO WELL (WHITE LIES?)
Oh, that's how you turn off the caps lock....!
ReplyDeleteblah blah blah.....honestly? his use of all caps and lack of comma's is boring....in my head, it is starting to sound like the charlie browns teacher.....so much that i don't even care what the whole point of this debate was.
ReplyDeletestephanie- i counted 5 comas... and much other punctuation where ness. really this use of questions and arguemenys i find so boring ,, in my head its starting to sound like someone gives a fuck
ReplyDeleteRobert but not- you are a silly goon. X)
ReplyDeleteAs for what RS said... I guess that solves THAT problem then! *dusts hands*
That man can argue like a Jesuit when the mood hits 'im...
I want to hear about plans for Vegas and Coachella, for the Dark album, the new dvds, plans for the 30th anniversary. What has happened to the re-mastered cds? Are there any other live shows this year? Where is the Ask Robert feature? What about CureTV?
ReplyDeleteWhile it's an important issue, and RS is obviously concerned about it, the "Free Music" debate will go on and on and on, and always in circles.
I want to read about The Cure again. I want to be excited about future projects, no matter how big or small. I want to be teased with cryptic messages about the Dark album, or some future event.
But maybe I'm just being selfish and impatient.
"I'm always wanting more. Anything I haven't got. Everything. I want it all. I just can't stop."
I agree with Robert. Screw Ryan Dombal at Pitchfork.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree with you, Craig, but do hope Robert continues to stand up on the issue, I also hope he takes the time to change the production for the upcoming album, as there were problems with the last album, especially in terms of production and vocals.
ReplyDeleteAmen, Craig, I want that too.
ReplyDeleteI've been looking everyday at the official Cure site in hope to finally read that fabled "interview" with Robert in which he would let us in on the gods secrets...
Wasn't the dark album supposed to be released this month? What now, again?
And they better not miss Disintegration's 20th birthday.
I still got my worn-out tape and hold off buying the cd cause I know... the special edition... is... coming...
Right, Robert?
Well said Robert but not. However, I do believe that RS can afford to drink beer in the sun whenever he wants to. :) Perhaps RS enjoyed the publicity his prior comments made, of which he could use more due to TMU's failure promote 4:13 to any extent. I do agree that live gigs have got to be the only way they are making money these days. Sorry, the business side of music fascinates me. :}
ReplyDeleteI agree.
ReplyDeleteI still totally agree with Robert's premise. But people won't let him win the argument because he isn't on board with the "newest, most innovative, pushing the envelope how-cool-is-this, blah blah blah" thing.
However, I also agree with Craig. I miss Cure news. But look on the bright side, Robert's birthday is just two weeks away and that's when the Dark Album is supposed to be coming out ;)
But the 4/17 Dream in Vegas is coming soon and that will definitely tide me over a while!!
I disagree with Robert to some extent. I feel that it is up to the individual artist on a case by case basis to decide how much their art is worth and then present it to the public, who then accepts (buys) or rejects it. The Cure seems to be fine with their art being worth 13.99 (American) a pop. Radiohead was ok with it being worth potentially nothing. Either way is fine to me; I certainly don't expect "free music for everyone" to be the norm ever (and how could you in a capitalist society like America?). It's a product, and I therefore expect to pay some amount to get it. Radiohead/NIN/et all were unique cases. I don't think anyone could say that Trent Reznor giving away his last album hurt him in the slightest; indeed, he's got more publicity than he's had in years! I see it as all just different ways for artists to deal with their labels. It works for some, it doesn't for others. I don't think there should be a push for a universal anything.
ReplyDeleteCraig: I don't think you're being impatient or selfish, or that asking any of that of RS would be like asking him to walk on water or take a trip to the moon. :) It would be wonderful to see him write with the same passion he shows for this issue about upcoming Cure-related projects.
ReplyDeleteyeah this debate has real limited appeal on fan web sites. We're just fans - everyone can afford to buy the music they love.. we kind of don't care if it's free or if we have to pay top dollar, you know a whole $16 bucks or whatever for a CD it's not going to break the bank.
ReplyDeleteI agree wholeheartedly with Craig, it's patently obvious that downloading music and ripping off artists sucks.
ReplyDeleteBut enough already, I need my disintegration remaster before i scream bloody murder
I still believe Trent Reznor has the best "buisness model". One for me and one for free et al. It keeps fans happy, keeps his wallet full and brings new fans to the material who want to try out a NIN album; which in turn creates more money for Trent through live performances (Ha, Robert saying he can't perform).
ReplyDeleteAgain though I think Robert is missing out on a few facts. There are many bands who started off by giving away their first album for free on t'internet, then charged money after they established a fan base. It works both ways.
I think Robert has a valid point because he is thinking about the new artist.At the same time, there has to be a compromise.
ReplyDeleteIf I was a new artist, I might give some of my music away for free to get it out there; then charge for the rest if it became the smart business thing to do.
Bottom line: With this being the Age Of Technology now, there isn't going to be an easy fix for Music, Newspapers, Media of any kind, for a long time-if ever?
Teh Intarweb Hath Bring Destruction! :P
<3
(and P.S.)
ReplyDelete---> Dearest Robert:
We really would love to hear some Cure news too. Dark Album... Oh God, make it so! And 2009-2010 tour?
2010- A Space Odyssey Tour...think of the possibilities!
^_^
Now, I must go back to the real world: bah!
I understand Robert's concerns, but I have to side with Trent on this... assuming it's a choice of the two. I don't think they are mutually exclusive. It's just that I think Trent's model is the most likely give the artists agency with their own careers and content. You have to consider the unintended effects of criminalizing your audience and empowering major corporations that provide internet access, yadda yadda. This is about protecting culture, as far as I am concerned. If you criminalize and restrict, etc, you undermine culture. We need to create a new "patronage" system that is independent of corporate power. Creativity, Robert... creativity.
ReplyDeleteThread hijack!
ReplyDeleteI am bored. Someone come chat with me in Meebo. :)
GOONISH *WAVE* (IN CAPS) TO HELSABOT ;-)
ReplyDeleteCure news Craig....new remix of Close To Me out soon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2QvXPVrshM&feature=related
This is truly awful - if you are easily offended please do not follow this link!
haha. How does one 'goonishly wave' anyway?? I guess the possibilities are endless...
ReplyDeleteAfter reading what RS said a second time... I think I just realized what he's on about. I was wondering why he was being so overly emotional & dramatic... here I was thinking he just wanted to argue, but now I don't think that's it at all... I r teh slowz... 8'C
Either that or I read between the lines too much! 8X
A goonish wave - a bit like an RS dance?
ReplyDeleteRobert yelling through caps? No way.
ReplyDeleteHe's just suffering from caps lock affliction, a mild disease to which, as of today, no-one ever found a cure for.
Though sometimes there are lapses in normality.
zombieculthero said everything I was going to say.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why he's so caught up in it when he can do whatever he wants. Let other artists worry about themselves.
No, it's not ever going to become the norm for artists to be expected to give away their music. That wouldn't make any sense. No artist would give away music for free unless they could afford it, or had a reason for it.
Concentrate your efforts on The Cure, Robert. Don't worry about all this stuff that doesn't even affect you.
Well, obviously this DOES affect him. It directly affects how much the label will advance him for an album, how much will be spent on promotion, and how much they will pay him for a tour.
ReplyDeleteAs the public perception turns against paying for albums, the overall volume of sales goes down. Thus, so do a label's profit. If the label doesn't think they can sell a significant volume of a given record, they will shift the act to a pure distribution arrangement.
At that point, their only commitment is to make sure the album is delivered to shops. (More or less.)
So if you enjoy the Cure coming to your town, THIS DIRECTLY AFFECTS BOTH ROBERT AND YOU.
I agree Todd & zombieculthero.
ReplyDeleteI think he's taken a very extreme stance on the issue and is not being entirely realistic on this. I'm going out on a limb here 'cause I'm insane, but if Robert is upset about 4:13 not selling as well as he thinks it should have, I don't think all the blame can or should be placed on people downloading it, or because of certain artists who offer free mp3s of their music.
I don't think it's so much that they don't value what they do (well, most of them anyway) but that they're merely trying to get people interested enough to actually BUY their work. They're trying to make the internets work FOR them instead of AGAINST them... and who's saying all music should be available for free?? Or that artists will have no choice but to give their music away?? I don't hear artists en masse making these statements... I don't understand why he thinks those artists who're experimenting with different ways of exposing their music are only creating a "culture of expectation".
The point is, the 'old systems' just aren't going to work like they used to, not left to their own devices they're not.
I love you RS, but I don't think you're being entirely rational here.
What I do agree with him on is The Cure not being 'culturally acceptable', but when were they EVER culturally acceptable??!! sigh...
he was asked and he responded. That's it. People are making a big deal just because he mentioned Radiohead. I think he is right to some point, but then again, every band-artist can do what ever they want to do. Now Trent, i think he is up to something, for sure.
ReplyDeleteUm, from what I recall he wasn't asked for his opinion on this. He abruptly decided to rant about it shortly after the NME awards thing. This is his second "magnum opus" on the subject! ;)
ReplyDeleteIt's difficult for me to envision this future that he seems so adamant is on the horizon; it's a mite drastic to say the least. I don't completely agree with everything he's said, as much as I appreciate his passionate discourse.
I think he really needs to relax a little and stop being so hard on himself... easier said than done!
I'm guessing then that the companion/dark album of 4:13 Dream is not going to be released for free (or otherwise)?
ReplyDeleteHere we go again.
Instead of ROBERT ranting about this, he should be talking about how he is keeping his promise of releasing more music - new or remastered.
I love the guy, but ever since I began really paying attention to his comments online and in interviews, I've noticed that he cannot be trusted.
yeah I keep reading about this subject matter trying to understand what it is about and not understanding what it is about and now I think I might have a handle on it. So, tell me if I'm right.
ReplyDeleteIt would help dumber people like me if Robert was more precise about exactly what it is he has a problem with. At first I thought he was complaining that bands like Radiohead and NIN who gave away their music were setting a dangerous precedent in the marketplace where ultimately nobody would be paid for making music. But that doesn't make any sense because I hardley think a couple artists out there who gave away their music constitutes a trend of any kind. Those couple of examples seem like an exception to the norm that's out there.
Then I thought, well maybe he's actually talking about all the people who find ways to get music for free on the internet and bands like Radiohead aren't helping by giving it away, it's creating the perception that "all music should be free" although I'm not sure anyone except him has said that.
He's rallying against a trend by consumers to seek out free music on the web.
? Again it would help dumber people like me if he got more specific about what it is that's bothering him.
What about the sorry state of concert ticket re-sales, ROBERT? Guess how much money you, the artist, are losing out on there?
ReplyDelete