Thursday, August 21, 2008

New album news!

Robert has posted at the official site. New album is entitled 4.13 Dream and is out on Oct. 13th...he thinks. : )

Update: Robert has corrected the title. It's 4:13 Dream.
Posted by Craig at 8:08 PM

280 comments:

  1. altr2eliseAugust 25, 2008 at 8:48 PM

    Fantac - Perfect!

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  2. Clockwise CatAugust 25, 2008 at 9:17 PM

    Holy FUCK!

    Namepa is more loquacious than I am. That is refreshing to know.

    But he/she is also more eloquent. That part is disconcerting.

    #204 FTW!

    Sorry Craig.

    Anyway. I too find Porl's playing invaluable and am glad that they are moving forward, whatever the pitfalls of that forward move may be in some eyes/ears.

    Also, monkeybutt, the very thing I DISLIKED originally about TOO is that it sounds too rehashy. That is what you are criticizing TPB for. TPB sounds a bit fresher to me than TOO.

    More later as I am eating and eating and typing do not always mix.

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  3. altr2eliseAugust 25, 2008 at 9:28 PM

    One of the things that I love about The Cure is that their music is like a changing landscape. One day there can be a track that is 'not for me' and the next I am changing my vote on the poll to show it as my favourite B side.

    There is no doubt in my mind, that there is a Cure for every mood and given that moods are ever-changing, it is reassuring to know that the Cure will ALWAYS have music to match my moment in time.

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  4. Clockwise CatAugust 25, 2008 at 9:55 PM

    206 FT...

    oh wait...

    i agree elise! i have often hated things i have later loved and vice versa.

    i still need to scroll up to read the ahem, dissertations.

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  5. RandyAugust 25, 2008 at 10:41 PM

    i hope someday i can write a comment comprised of nothing but capitalized acronyms.

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  6. MorrisAugust 25, 2008 at 11:02 PM

    (Falstaff - A fat, vainglorious, and cowardly knight)

    "There's no spark. And before this brings an avalanche of 'negativity' accusations, you've got to remember the albums they used to put out, from the very first through to The Top. The rot set in after that and apart from the odd exception it has been a long, painful decline into self-satire and apparent ego-tism."

    ...unbelievable - a joke right?

    LOL!

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  7. UnknownAugust 25, 2008 at 11:19 PM

    Namepa and Fantac: I loved your essays!

    Namepa, Porl has said that, for his sense of melody, RS is one of his favorite guitarists.
    I have a strange relation to Porl's guitar playing. When I first got into The Cure (85-86), Porl spent most of his time on keyboards - it seems he always played the more intricate rhythm parts. I think because of that, I have always seen RS as The Cure's guitar man that defines their sound.

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  8. UnknownAugust 25, 2008 at 11:25 PM

    Morris - I agree with the first part of Falstaff's comment. IMO, all Cure elements had been laid by the time The Top came around.

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  9. Clockwise CatAugust 25, 2008 at 11:51 PM

    I find it altogether HILARIOUS - and I am sorry for my venomous tone - that ANYONE would be denigrating the Cure for "losing it" after THE TOP. That's all fine and well if you think that - BUT WHY THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN LISTENING TO THE CURE FOR TWENTY FOUR YEARS SINCE THEN? ISNT THAT A LONG TIME TO WAIT FOR THEM TO REGAIN THEIR SPARK??

    ROFLMAO.

    Sorry, Craig, for my tone. But this is just unbelievably AMUSING to me. ;-)

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  10. MarcoAugust 26, 2008 at 7:50 AM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

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  11. MarcoAugust 26, 2008 at 7:53 AM

    Its difficult to explain why someone loves the cure..thats just a feeling. No other band is like the cure (thank god).

    But the new songs dont have "the cure thing" they use to have.

    I had a great time see them 3 times this year. And i will go to their concerts no matter what they release. Because the cure feeling comes back during these concerts. Mainly because of the "old" songs. And you have to be honest: the new songs didnt get much cheers during the shows. And many of you heard them before.

    When i first heard their self-titled album in 2004 (??) i heard 1 song that reminds me of all the things i like about the cure and that is: going nowhere. Such a great song !! Could have fit on disintegration.

    I dont know why my feeling about the cure changed during these years.
    1 thing i know for sure: i will not come back with the current songs.

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  12. UnknownAugust 26, 2008 at 8:08 AM

    Cat - My comment is not meant to say they lost it after The Top. I don't think they lost anything! It would be pretty depressing to expect the band keep making "my" favorite album over and over.
    It is remarkable that they have been so good for so such a long time.
    You have said something like "I love the Cure here and now" - now you're are being quoted! lol
    It is the same with me.

    They still have the magic to move me in a way very few people do.

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  13. AnonymousAugust 26, 2008 at 8:36 AM

    namepa, i'm not saying i totally agree with you but that was the most articulate, honest and non self-promoting string of comments i've read from anyone on here.

    a breath of fresh air. thanks for that.

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  14. HellboyAugust 26, 2008 at 9:03 AM

    from "Seventeen Seconds"

    to "4:13 Dream"

    language has changed, The Cure has changed, but one thing remains the same ~ a lot of Cure fans are incredibly grumpy people :-)

    i'm grumpy too, but not right now, i'm too excited about NEW CURE ALBUM.

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  15. hynreckandjoeAugust 26, 2008 at 9:12 AM

    Falstaff, namepa and co., even though I do not agree with you, I respect your thoughts on the matter, very well formulated and respectful. I see there's still passion about The Cure, even though by all account of what I'm reading you should all have move on by now, since the music doesn't seem to bring you anything but sadness...
    For my part, I never want to live in the past. New music is like food for the soul, without it I would die.

    I'll only add this thought: Funny, I did think The Cure started loosing the spark somewhere around Wild Mood Swings, somewhere in the 4 years and complications between Wish and that album.
    But now... I'm feeling that spark back again from what I could gleam from the new music, a spark that I haven't felt since the Wish era.
    So call me crazy, foolishly sentimental, but I think The Cure's back to full force, and I'm SO excited!
    So, in closing, if The Cure's lost it, I say keep on losing it baby, cause it sure feels right to me!


    (and to all the disgrunteld fans out there, remember: Without You's been written for you! Go listen!)

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  16. Clockwise CatAugust 26, 2008 at 9:28 AM

    msp: sorry, i should have been clear. my comment was directed toward falstaff. this will likely please him, given his proclivity to rile people up. falstaff, darlin', don't get too big a head about it - i really don't care very deeply. it's all just amusing to me. ;-)

    as for the cure losing it - imo, the only thing they have lost is the ability to create sound production. bf and tc had sub-par production, and these singles are kinda iffy as well.

    otherwise, for me, the cure NEVER lost the ability to make a good SONG - indeed, many good songs.

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  17. cure_kittyAugust 26, 2008 at 11:40 AM

    Thanks for your posts namepa, marco & flastaff even though I don't agree with what you said, each of your posts was well written. You all mentioned some good points as to why you felt the cure has lost it/not producing any good music without putting down or criticizing the majority of the people on here who do love the new songs and think the Cure still has it. Thanks!

    Fantac---Loved your post! That's exactly how I felt about The Cure in the early 00's. I still liked them but for many reasons I just wasn't into the band as I was before. Thankfully I opened my eyes & ears once again a few years back and now I love the music once again both old & new!

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  18. cure_kittyAugust 26, 2008 at 11:40 AM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

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  19. Clockwise CatAugust 26, 2008 at 1:29 PM

    CK: i agree that namepa and marco were nice - but was falstaff was a royal jerk. that's his way, though, clearly. he gets off on it.

    why do i care? i don't, really, i'm just in a feisty mood. ;-)

    ps swid does indeed suck; i agree with monkeybutt there. if they left it off the album, i would rejoice. BUT, notice, i am not denigrating anyone who likes it! if you do, great. we can all still be lovey dovey friends. ;-)

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  20. falstaffAugust 26, 2008 at 1:29 PM

    For myself, yes you always wonder if *you've* lost it, or *they've* lost it (natural part of getting older?). But it's cleared up by listening to a few earlier albums, live-recordings and rarities. They seem to have lost it. More precisely, Robert seems to have lost it, sadly. He seems concerned with things like singing in different styles\registers (and, whsiper it, learning to sing properly, breath control etc...) To me his strengths been always been imaginative. If that goes, there's not a lot you can do. You're stuck.

    A lot of the comment on here gets quite esoteric (again, not an attack). It seems misplaced to me. The songs...not the camaraderie, the giddiness, the adrenatine from tours and new album releases, the quixotic remixes...just the songs, are just not very good. The hoopla is fine and dandy. But the songs mostly stink. That's sad. And if you've been into the Cure for as long as I have (since '79) it really stinks. I wonder if an old schoolfriend of mine still ahs a note Robert scribbled to him all in pencil? (winsome and pretentious at the same time...now there's a definition).

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  21. falstaffAugust 26, 2008 at 1:40 PM

    There has been some good stuff since the Top, just as not as much as some of us would have liked. Last time I looked, you can listen to what you like, from whichever period.

    Clockwise...sorry I can't give you the agreement you expect. Or the wording. Or the sentiment. And look, I addressed you directly. Yous eemt o want to give the casual glancing put-down blow, well why dont you? Possibly I'm even more indifferent to it than you are. passion, someone mentioned. to me that is what the Cure are\were all about. I'm afraid my passion for you is limited (joke!).

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  22. Clockwise CatAugust 26, 2008 at 1:41 PM

    Falstaff, I have been into the Cure since 1985, just SIX years fewer than you. And I mostly like the new stuff, although I can certainly appreciate some of the arguments against it. But your pretentiously patronizing tone is off-putting. The songs do not inherently stink - the songs are good for some and not for others. So chill with the asshole tone. No one is saying anything "esoteric." We are all mostly a lively bunch - some of us are giddy for the new stuff, some of us are tepid about it. But there is no reason to attempt to veil your condescension. It's there in reeking abundance.

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  23. Clockwise CatAugust 26, 2008 at 1:44 PM

    yeah, well, falstaff, why the hell listen to a band for 24 MORE years if that is your attitude about them since The TOP?

    you are HI LARRY US!

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  24. falstaffAugust 26, 2008 at 1:47 PM

    morris...(as in dancing?) Falstaff isn't just a Shakespeare character (opera etc).

    Is is really so difficult just to voice honest opinion, without all the bile? My main emotions are just bitter disappointment at the new material, and the direction the Cure have taken. It's frustration talking - passion. I'm honestly surprised more people dont seem to feel it.

    I keep waiting for the moment when people start pointing at the emperor on the horse and realising he's acting a little chilly. But I've said it before and no-one seems to be having it. Hehe, so much for live-and-let-spirit, eh?

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  25. caterpillargirl2August 26, 2008 at 2:10 PM

    I can appreciate honest opinions and criticism of the band, but I don't think the new songs stink at all. And yes, it does make me sad to hear negative feedback and worry that the band is reading the comments on this board and self-doubting.

    That said, there has always been good and bad feedback, so nothing is new hear. What tickles one person's fancy, may not for another. We're like humans that way. :)

    I think The Cure have morphed into a different band with every album. Is every song gold just because The Cure wrote and performed it? No, of course not. There are songs I skip over, but the songs I LOVE are a big spark in my life. And as someone else mentioned, sometimes songs I used to skip over at one time, end up being a new LOVE at another time.

    And there are many, many, many wonderful songs and each album contains them. Yes, even the underrated self-titled has songs that I say "Oh Yes" to when I'm playing it. I'm so freakin' thrilled that this band is still morphing and can appreciate each new piece of lyrical and musical art that they present to us. I think Porl has brought a talent to the table that is shining and Porl Thompson LIVE in 2008 was just amazing. I'm so glad I got to hear him wail on that guitar. Just beautiful.

    I am fascinated by TOO, FS the most - I think both of them are brilliant and have entered into my favorite songs played on my mp3 player. I'm really loving TPB, but find myself listening to WY as the first song when I pop in the disc. I think WY should have been the A-side. SWID is okay in my opinion, I do like it - it's atmospheric and it rocks, but out of the new singles it is not one that sparkles as richly as the others.

    So whatever, I'm enjoying my new singles. I could care less if you're not. If you don't have "it" for The Cure right now, I'm sorry. I have got "it" BIG right now and IMO so does The Cure.

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  26. falstaffAugust 26, 2008 at 2:22 PM

    Clockwise...we dont like each other, but we'll both live. It's not condescension, it's genuine amazement. it doesn't matter how long you or I have listened to the Cure; I put that in just to indicate, maybe, why there's a deopth of feeling there. Which there is. Amongst my own circles sadly it's a given that the Cure are finished. I still fly the flag, hoping otherwise.

    I notice you use the 'we' a lot, as if you speak for people, the majority. Well, that's sad, too, in its own way. I'm glad you dont speak for me (I know I dont speak for you, lol).

    'Asshole tone'? 'Pretentiously patronising?

    Right.

    But it's not me or you we're discussing.

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  27. MarcoAugust 26, 2008 at 2:26 PM

    HEY Namepa !

    I also became a fan during the 1985 period !
    My sister had a tape with some mixes and 2 cure songs appear on them: a forest (live from Concert) and let's go to bed. I asked her what band that was and she said: The Cure. Then a friend had a tape from The Head On The Door. Sinking was such a great song, i never heard a song like that before. Then i bought Pornography (dont know why , but i was 12 at the time...so i think the pornography titel got me interested).
    Wow what a amazing record that was/is !!! I played that record everyday from 1985 till 1989. Thats really the truth. I had to buy the record many times because of the scratches. I was glad when the cd version came out.
    So i am a fan for a long time, i know what i am talking about. I saw the cure became a big band with a lot of fans (remember the prayer tour, so succesfull). I also saw the decline: the WMS area.
    But i always will love the cure for the great songs they have released and ofcourse for the many concerts i went to,
    So it makes me sad that the band i always have loved does not touch me anymore the way they did.
    Thats all, i am not here to pick on the cure or their fans.

    I am just saying that the road they are going is not the good one. And i hope Robert and the rest will see that too someday.

    And when i read the comments : i am not the only one thinking this way.

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  28. hynreckandjoeAugust 26, 2008 at 2:27 PM

    I'm sure Robert feel doubt all the time, like everybody else, but not because of us and what we say on the mighty net.
    I think he would have been out of the business long ago if that was the case!
    o_q mmm i could go for some...

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  29. falstaffAugust 26, 2008 at 2:29 PM

    BTW, Clockwise...I just read some of you're othe rcomments I'd missed (a mixed blessing). The caps and stuff. I dont think you find it unbelievably amusing at all. I think you're being venomous.

    So am I - but it's towards the songs, and The Cure. i dont know you from Adam (and given what we've had to say to each other, let's hope it stays that way). You obviously feel part of the community (not a bad thing). I dont, I dont care either way. I'm just interested in the Cure, but less so these days it seems.

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  30. Clockwise CatAugust 26, 2008 at 2:32 PM

    yes, you are an insufferable tedious soul, falstaff, much like your namesake. you revel in your "vainglorious" ways and masturbate to people like me who call you out for your consciously intolerable persona.

    there is no GIVEN with the cure or anything else in life, now is there? just because people are not climbing all over themselves to agree with you, you feel the need to come up with oh-so-curtained withering insults towward them.

    newsflash: i actually think the production on TPB sucks (great song though it is in my estimation), and that SWID sucks, and that TOO is a too-cutesy rehash.

    but i DONT feel the need to tell others in such thinly veiled terms that they are foolish for liking the production, or liking SWID, or liking TOO.

    to each their own is what i am saying. how is that so difficult to discern?

    my guess is it is NOT, and you are just being flippantly annoying because you CAN be. because you're an annoying character in a shakespeare play. oooh, we're so impressed.

    *realizing that lack of sleep has its benefits*

    *also realizing that she may be in deep doo-doo with craig, whom she continues to admire*

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  31. Clockwise CatAugust 26, 2008 at 2:36 PM

    no, its not venom, falstaff - i truly find it "fucking amusing" that you think the cure have been severely slipping since the top, and YET you continue to listen some TWENTY FOUR years later.

    L
    O
    L

    sure, it's your choice, just like it's mine to beat you about a bit about it. i've never had the chance to SPAR with an actual shakespeare character. what FUN!

    okay, i'll stop, craig. i've transgressed the limits, i know.

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  32. hynreckandjoeAugust 26, 2008 at 2:43 PM

    I must agree with Cat about the 24 years of her argument, I find it baffling too.

    I mean, take me as an exemple. I used to like Lenny Kravitz when I was younger. Still like some of his songs, too. But when I found out most if not all of his songs where about the greatness of God I got sick to my stomach. And I stop listening. I just can't anymore.
    Nowadays I don't know where the guys been and if he's done anything great. I've lost interest. I've moved on.

    But 24 years, falstaff, and you've still NOT moved on? What gives?

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  33. Clockwise CatAugust 26, 2008 at 2:45 PM

    craig, i'm sorry. i just had an epiphany that today is an "off" day for me. i so admire you and your cof efforts. i suck for sullying them and will not post anymore today.

    forgive me?

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  34. falstaffAugust 26, 2008 at 2:57 PM

    Clockwise...you seem to want to ratchet up the personal stuff a notch? I'm not interested in that bit. I've already made a few generalisations, but I'll stop at that. Maybe you should too?

    Who said anything about stopping listening completely after the Top? I just said that the stuff after doesn't seem as strong, which is reasonable enough. I think there have been some gems, some great singles, good album songs, the odd rarity (was always hoping Ariel would get the full treatment,b ut that's a different topic). But always interesting. then after the last few of albums it really seems tohave gone much more pear-shaped (I have a feeling someone here is going to be offended on behalf of pears everywhere, lol).

    hynreck...yup, I have moved on but...oh hell, i dont want to talk about my tastes...but i find it's The Cure that haven't. That's part of the shock\dismay.

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  35. falstaffAugust 26, 2008 at 3:04 PM

    Clockwise, must admit I didn't read your last post fully (had children to attend to...fact, not a put down)....now I have.

    Seriously, I'd get some sleep.
    Meanwhile, I have rehearsals to go to (not at trolling, believe it or not). Might do a cover for Siamese Twins for old time's sake...

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  36. falstaffAugust 26, 2008 at 3:21 PM

    ...annoying character in a Shakespeare play? No, I was mucking around online once and couldn't think a name, so picked one from a newspaper that was open, if that helps. No game-playing either. I think you're being silly (maybe we're all the same with lack of sleep?)

    But back to the songs...oh fuck it, I think i've said all i can say...time to go out and play some instead.

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  37. hynreckandjoeAugust 26, 2008 at 3:21 PM

    For the fun of it and because I'm bored at my job...
    You say The Cure did NOT move on? Yet you like the old Cure better?? Does not compute, wouldn't that be a good thing for you?
    Isn't it more because The Cure indeed moved on and change that you don't like them anymore?

    I guess you're saying that they are doing the same stuff, but the quality has declined, chussit-chassit something something. We're back at the beginning with taste and opinion about how good the new stuff really is, aren't we?

    Well, been there done that, I guess I'll go home. Can't even have a proper argument anymore... end up talking to myself, mumbling.

    *Leaves*

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  38. AnonymousAugust 26, 2008 at 3:29 PM

    Cat - Please stop apologizing. I enjoy reading your posts and I'm sure I'm not the only one. In my opinion, this remains a "public" board and you are indeed entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else.

    That people have to apologize or seemingly have to feel bad for saying or showing that they love The Cure and their music on this very blog (COF) is mind-boggling to me!!!

    It's a FAN blog for God's sake! And it does bring a lot of people together - again, thanks Craig! :oD

    Fine, some people don't like The Cure and stick around the band! Fine, some people think we are deaf for liking their music! Can't we just continue to "get along" and enjoy our favorite band's efforts?

    There's always the official to rant...

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  39. Clockwise CatAugust 26, 2008 at 3:42 PM

    you are a fantac after my own heart.

    i am not apologizing for my opinions, darlin', i am apologizing to craig for getting personal with falstaff. craig doesnt want his site to be shit-filled, and who could blame him? COF rocks ALL our asses and mammaries, and so we should respect that. i was not being respectful to craig.

    falstaff: yes, i was deliberately trying to ratchet things up owing to lack of sleep and other things. i am sorry. i still take exception to your veiled insults, but whatever.

    i am especially outraged at your pear-parody.

    IS NO FRUIT SACRED FROM YOUR WITHERING ATTACKS?

    PS Post-Top Cure RULZ!

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  40. falstaffAugust 26, 2008 at 3:43 PM

    hyn...I mostly prefer the older Cure, yes, and occasionally some of the newer stuff, and always hope they'll be a return to form (as I see it).

    Of course, they've moved on in several ways, but I dont find these qways very inspiring, and sometimes it just seems a re-tread of styles and modes that we're very good in the first place (the more whimsical stuff). And then when I look at some of the more recent attempts to get heavy, I find it mostly plodding.

    No, i cna't explain it very well, as I said (leaves too...have to go and set up)

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  41. Clockwise CatAugust 26, 2008 at 3:46 PM

    ps craig, i miss you. dearly. there is a large cof void when you are so elusive. please come back. PLEASE COME BACK. *repeats refrain*

    *wonders if her darling falstaff will notice the sly allusion*

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  42. 7bluestarsAugust 26, 2008 at 6:27 PM

    So, about the pic accompanying the new record announcement...
    'webdream', with credit to C.A, I'm thinking 4:13 Dream is 'on the horizon'? And then there's 17, a very nice number...

    On a related topic, i.e., cover art, can anyone confirm that Robert did indeed do the art for Lovesong? Imo, it's one of the best Cure covers ever. I'm told there was a rumor that Mary did it, but that sounds like a bit of stretch. Does she have artistic talent?

    Cat, dear, I didn't read all the stuff in this thread, but from scanning, it would appear that you need rest, which I hope you got, accompanied of course by the sweetest of dreams. Don't let the rubbish get you down.:-)

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  43. christl d.August 26, 2008 at 8:39 PM

    HOLY FRIGGIN CRAP.

    WHEN WILL YOU ALL STOP WRITING EPICS FOR COMMENTS??

    maybe Craig should just publish all your comments in one big COF comment book.

    he could sort the chapters into Bitching, Stupid, Plain Lovely, etc.

    and I could study it. :) im supposed to be reading a book, but the comments on here are more well written than my hw!

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  44. hynreckandjoeAugust 27, 2008 at 8:12 AM

    *Writes epic stuff*

    o_q

    Lali-Ho!!

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  45. Clockwise CatAugust 27, 2008 at 8:37 AM

    T: I did indeed get rest and I am indeed of a more lucid mind. Thanks for your concern, darlin'! In all honesty, many of my comments yesterday were tinged with tongue-in-cheek effect. I am sure Falstaff doesn't see that... but one thing Falstaff doesn't realize is that despite my distaste for his veiled insults, I do admire his style of writing. While Falstaff and I may never run off naked into the sunset with each other, I am hopeful that one day we can arrive at some sort of mutual respect.

    DJ: Right now I am working on my COF Dissertation, which I will be publishing shortly RIGHT HERE! It's currently at 150 pages. Stay tuned my sweet... *cackles wickedly*

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  46. falstaffAugust 27, 2008 at 10:46 AM

    Apologies for another ramble\essay

    Clockwise...I dont quite get it, one minute you're all guns blazing, then halfway towards an apology, then at it again. There's nothing veiled, my opinion and feelings are there in black and white. My mother's feverish grandmother clock has fewer pendulum swings....

    I guess there are a couple of facets to this. One is semi-disbleief at the new songs, maybe not expressed well, but heartfelt. The second is a sort of creeping feeling that perhaps some would prefer more of a closed-shop, inner-sanctum type deal. It's all very well trading barbs and seeing who can come up with the most crushing put-down, but it's misplaced energy IMO. Generally I'm not very good at deference towards the core 'movers' in any given forum - the reason I dont go to any really, though I seem to be here a bit atm - but that's secondary, my gripe is with the songs, not you. And yes, there are elements of the fan-base I guess which I think maybe indulge Robert's soppier more egotistical side, providing almost a kind of re-assurance, a bit like friends who dont tell you something for fear of hurting your feelings. I dunno...

    Does Bobby take any notice of any of this stuff? I doubt it...I hope not..i wouldn't.

    So there's two facets to it. The songs, and I think he's getting an easy ride. And the reasoning behind both of these...is that he's capable of so much more (I hope). If he didn;t have his track record, I wouldn't keep bleating on about it. So it can be taken as scathing, yes, but from someone who (once?) cared deeply about the songs he put out. It's nothing to do with a pissing contest about who has listened to what, or how long....I think he's being given an easy ride, too, which makes it even harder to swallow. That's not condescension, or veiled, or calculated...it's a a plain, straight criticism of the songs (and by extension, Bob) and I suppose of parts of the community. As much as we'd all liek to say 'each to their own'...but of me (and everyone if they're honest) can't help feeling that sometimes others have got it slightly, or catastrophically wrong (artist and fans, both?). That's how I feel. Jilted-lover syndrome, maybe....

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  47. falstaffAugust 27, 2008 at 10:49 AM

    ...and that wraps it up for me, for now...

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  48. falstaffAugust 27, 2008 at 10:55 AM

    ...tada!!...except to say, Clockwise...I did get the allusions, was happy swimming in the lanes between the lines, and dont feeling any lasting antipathy either....(neither antipathy or lasting).

    One problem is I'm starting to feel not very much for anything connected with the Cure at all. Which is sad for me, if no-one else. I grew up with them. Then again, there is 'a world elsewhere'....

    maybe it is' always liek this...'...tada!!...

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  49. Clockwise CatAugust 27, 2008 at 11:12 AM

    Falstaff: No vacillation here. I truly enjoy your writing, just not always the way your express your sentiments toward a portion of the fanbase. But that is neither here nor there. I hope we can move on from trading barbs, fun though it may be to indulge from time to time.

    One thing I would say is - and I can only speak for myself here - that I would NEVER sychophantically caress Robert's ego. I say EXACTLY what I FEEL about the songs, the albums, the shows, and so forth. There is NO ego-massaging embellishment from me. The record will show that I have expressed utter hatred for songs like TOO and TPB initially - later I grew to love them but that is another matter. I still dislike the effects on TPB and I have grown really bored with SWID. And there are songs that I dislike throughout the entire Cure catalogue, and I have no problem discussing those in a frank manner.

    I don't agree that Robert has gotten a "free ride." Sure, he plays it safe sometimes, but then he mixes it up too, and so it somehow balances out. IMO, anyway.

    Sorry you are losing your love for the Cure. I had my own Cure lapse, but Trilogy lured me back in, and now I am a more compulsive Cure fan than ever. Hopefully one day something like that will happen for you - and if not, well, you'll always have the memories to cherish. :-)

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  50. AnonymousAugust 27, 2008 at 6:30 PM

    Falstaff - What do you think of "Underneath the Stars"?

    ReplyDelete
  51. falstaffAugust 28, 2008 at 5:02 AM

    Fantac...I dont personally like rock-journalese or many song reviews but here goes...

    I quite like it to begin with...I think it plays to Bob's voice, that classic dying fall thing where he's always had a sweet-spot...but there's also something not quite right about it. A sort of Faith-or-Sinking-lite.

    And that glittery, Xmas lights sample trigger thing is always overdone, annoying. Small things that add up,I guess.
    It's one of those epic, star-filled dome type songs where if anything the production needs reigning back, not drowning in syrup....and Bob seems to go for that soaring eagle voice thing in places, but his voice isn't happy there...it's forced and doesn't work, and no-one's told him. And the guitar fills have been heard a thousand times before in other Cure songs, so be nitty-picky (sure, you could say Hendrix is just blues licks, but it's not that...).

    It all turns into a bit of a lighter\phone waving hankie fest, and doesn't seem build or have much stricture the way the old epics did...

    ummm, hope this sort of answers the question...

    imagine if it was stripped down and given the '80s treatment, like Ariel, Lament, or Just One Kiss...and less bombast (not the only one, you could say)

    ...so that's a qualified 'sort of' I guess...

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  52. falstaffAugust 28, 2008 at 5:15 AM

    ...this got me thinking...Bob seems to like these wide-eyed boy-ish delight-at-the-natural-world-universe songs...(nothing wrong with that, the world needs more of it)...must be all that Brighton sea air...but it's the details that seem to let them down. A song like that musn't turn into kitsch.

    I think he'd be Peter Pan if he could. On the other hand - and god knows age doesn't matter -
    there's something weird about a man trying to climb back into his mother's womb in his late '40s, if you know what I mean...

    to me, the fact this song stands out from other recent stuff is in itself kind of sad, a bit desperate...I'mnot sure if his ability has gone, or not, but I think his judgement seems to have deserted him. The devil is in the details....

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  53. AnonymousAugust 28, 2008 at 6:58 AM

    Thanks Falstaff.

    You're incredibly analytical. Maybe it has to do with the fact that you can't seem to wonder at Cure songs anymore?

    I feel sorry for you because if you can't enjoy a song like UTS, to me, there's definitely something wrong with you as a Cure fan. In my opinion, you should let it go. Just let it go. What you're looking for was either never there or will indeed never be back. Wishing for a song like UTS to "get an 80's treatment" is sad. You're stuck in time or what?

    And waiting 24 years and looking for "it" to come back is a looooong time (and since no one has yet to mention it directly, I can't believe you're thus implying that Disintegration doesn't have "it", again, whatever "it" is). It makes me realize that you're indeed looking for something that was either never there or you idealized something from your youth - which would make you Peter Pan-like yourself.

    I have to say that I don't quite understand what Cat admires in your style because to me, your writing is full of contradictions, a mix of personal opinions turned to truth and based on examples that instead of supporting a point, contradict it. It's quite confusing to try and make sense of why you still call yourself a Cure fan, why you still stick around the band, why you take time to bash their music, etc.

    I say move on man! Let it go! You said it before, there's a world outside The Cure! So drop it!

    Having said that, you're of course entitled and free to do whatever the heck you want, to post on here or not, to answer me or not, to tell me I'm an idiot, whatever... But the point is that I really, really, really wonder why you would considering you obviously don't like this band after all!

    I hope you understand what I'm trying to express. I'm simply completely puzzled with every post you make!

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  54. hynreckandjoeAugust 28, 2008 at 7:48 AM

    Some people feel the need to run things into the ground, as to elevate themselves; makes them feel better.
    Falstaff just happens to pick upon the band he once idolized.
    'Cause when you can't let go of such a thing for so long... to me it only mean one of two things: either he is lying to himself about his comtempt and hatred of anything new Cure, trying to convince himself, or it's just plain old insecurities talking.

    No matter how you look at it, the problem dwells inside him, nowhere else.

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  55. hynreckandjoeAugust 28, 2008 at 7:54 AM

    Sorry about that, but I really think it's appropriate as a conclusion to this hot discussion, it really says it all, and from the mouth of Bob Smith himself:

    ANYTHING AT ALL
    BUT YOU KNOW I CAN’T STOP
    IT’S LIFE ON THE MOON
    ALL THIS TALK OF GIVING UP
    LIFE IS TOO SHORT
    FOR IT NOT TO BE TRUE
    THE BEST IDEA I THINK
    IS FOR ME TO GO MY WAY…

    ANYTHING AT ALL
    BUT DON’T WANT ME TO CHANGE
    HARD TO UNDERSTAND
    WHEN A PLAN IS THIS STRANGE
    AND LIFE IS TOO BIG
    Yeah IT HAS TO BE TRUE
    Oh THE BEST IDEA I THINK
    IS FOR ME TO GO MY WAY…

    IF ALL THAT YOU WANT
    IS HOW IT COULD BE
    YOU MAY AS WELL GO NOW
    THERE’S NO WAIT AND SEE…

    ANYTHING AT ALL
    BUT DON’T ASK ME TO FADE
    YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT
    I CAN’T EVER PLAY SAFE
    LIFE IS TOO REAL
    FOR IT NOT TO BE TRUE
    Oh THE BEST IDEA I THINK
    IS FOR ME TO GO MY WAY…

    IF ALL THAT YOU WANT
    IS HOW IT COULD BE
    YOU MAY AS WELL GO
    NO THERE’S NO WAIT AND SEE
    IT WILL ALWAYS BE WRONG
    IF ALL I WON’T GIVE
    IS ALL THAT YOU WANT
    IT’S A STRANGE WAY
    TO LIVE AND LET LIVE
    WHEN ALL THAT YOU DO
    IS MEASURE ME UP
    FALLING SHORTER THAN YOU
    IT’S A STRANGE WAY TO LOVE
    ALL THIS ‘BE AS I WANT’
    WHEN I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW
    I CAN’T FADE
    CHANGE
    OR STOP

    SO ANYTHING AT ALL
    BUT YOU KNOW I WON’T CHOOSE
    IF ALL YOU COULD WIN
    IS ALL I WOULD LOSE
    WHEN LIFE IS TOO RARE
    Yeah IT HAS TO BE TRUE
    THE BEST IDEA I THINK
    IS FOR ME TO GO MY WAY…

    …without you

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  56. Clockwise CatAugust 28, 2008 at 8:00 AM

    fantac and hynreck, i would like to have a polygamous marriage with you two. is this possible? please let me know.

    i think the lyrics to AKOS are entirely appropriate here as well.

    ps fan, i just like that he is rather erudite and flamboyant in his style. but yes, his opinions are contradiction-laden, and yes, the issue is with him.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Clockwise CatAugust 28, 2008 at 8:02 AM

    pps i find the current b-sides to be LUSCIOUSLY DELICIOUS and some of the best cure songs EVER. Down Under, Without You, AKOS - they rock my mammaries.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Clockwise CatAugust 28, 2008 at 8:07 AM

    ONE MORE THING, because i enjoy abusing equine corpses:

    the fact that ANYONE would QUESTION the "appropriateness" of what RSX or ANYONE would write at his age is completely LOLable to me. are you that insecure that you can't embrace that as we age life gets more wondrous, not less so, and that to celebrate life and libido and childlike fantasy is a wholly HEALTHY thing to do?

    what "should" RS be writing about -his age spots??

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  59. hynreckandjoeAugust 28, 2008 at 8:12 AM

    Viagra, obviously.

    *Joke blatantly stolen from someone I can't remember, sorry*

    And the B-sides are very good indeed. Really love AKOS and WY.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Clockwise CatAugust 28, 2008 at 8:19 AM

    mmmmmmmmmm Viagra.

    do you like Down Under, hynreck??

    ReplyDelete
  61. hynreckandjoeAugust 28, 2008 at 9:10 AM

    I find Down Under beautiful. But strangely enough, I don't find myself singing it as much as the others, so I guess it's saying something. Doesn't get stuck in my head.
    Still it got some catchy and beautiful guitar in it.

    Some songs are like that: like a cool drink of water, refreshing, always welcome. Just not like that frosty Milkshake that makes you foam at the mouth, like Without You...
    Freakshow and AKOS... except those are more like a shot of Tequila!

    ReplyDelete
  62. falstaffAugust 28, 2008 at 9:16 AM

    ...hyn and clockwise...that lays it all to rest a bit too easily...it's too easy just say it's all in the mind or the beholder....I dont think it is. But hey.

    I never idolised the Cure, except as a teenager (read into that what you want) though they meant\mean soemthing to me, especially when I was growing up...but to just throw everything I've said into the bin marked 'needy' or somesuch is a bit silly, lol. Ah well..

    fantac..it's not analytical...it's just that I was , ahem, asked...so trying to pinpoint reasons why i dont think stuff works as well as it could. I can make it much simpler: good tune let down by poor production and sogginess!

    hehe, people seem to think there's some great pyschological needs here...there isn't. I not waiting for a second coming, lol, just simply amazed at the songs, and maybe the reception they're getting. I'm as baffled by that as soem of you seem to be by what I say, lol. I keep tabs on what Bob+co are up to from time to time, I dont set my clock by it, never did. I dont stick around the band in any sense. Nor do I see anything to defend.

    Clockwise...you can't seem to decide whether to be civil, or back to barbs. I've lost interest either way, mainly because no-one seems to have a clue what I'm on about, lol. You've got me wrong on the 'appropriateness' thing - it's not for us to say - just a general point. The sadness of many of Bob's getting older songs is preciesly because you can't go back. I think you're being selective, but then aren't we all?

    As for hyn's quoted lyrics...well, yeah.

    wall...head...banging....

    but yeah, even I've got to admit, this is now well and truly flogged...so....

    ReplyDelete
  63. Clockwise CatAugust 28, 2008 at 9:41 AM

    so because you can't go back to youth you can't revel in youthful passions?? we're all just supposed to age appropriately, according to stifling societal standards, in our boring business suits, being careful not to shake things up too much for fear of riling up old fogies who just want to sip their prune juice and watch re-runs of all in the family?

    the older i get the more rebellious i get. rebellion is typically seen as a hallmark of youth. so what does that tell you? am i just desperately trying to regain my youthful passions, or am i indeed simply more aware and alive than ever? should i just retreat into my old lady attire and let my hair go gray, or am i still allowed to dye my hair and wear high tops with skulls on them? or does that make me some silly parody of my former self? it's all about perspective, my friend, and i'd much rather have a fresh one than the tedious one you're dishing up.

    let rsx write whatever the fuck he wants. if he wants to write about getting his weenie sucked, let him. if he wants to write about how the perfect boy is really a cad, more power to him. he's tapping into the innate passions we carry with us THROUGHOUT life.

    ReplyDelete
  64. hynreckandjoeAugust 28, 2008 at 9:47 AM

    Lyrics still fitting.
    But yeah, live and let live and such...

    So I leave (for now) with a quote from the great Monty Python:
    (maybe not exact words, sorry)

    Drinking Bud and making love in a canoe is the same thing: it's fucking close to water.


    Ah, this one I'll get right:
    Albatross!!

    ReplyDelete
  65. Clockwise CatAugust 28, 2008 at 9:50 AM

    ps

    falstaff, when you're 80 you'll be ensconced in your rocking chair at the old person's home, droolcup by your side. when i'm 80, i'll be lying underneath the stars, in perpetual awe of the cosmos. i promise to come visit; maybe i'll even bring you some stardust.

    ReplyDelete
  66. falstaffAugust 28, 2008 at 10:08 AM

    Clockwise...lol, well at least I now know you'tre firmly back in the wanting-a-spat camp. I can't be bothered with that. too fucking boring.

    I think you're dead wrong. I dont think you're rebellious in the least (I'm guessing). It's a tried-and-tested formula that equates rebellion with knocking down a few straw targets (societal norms, sic), and trying to be youthful in the same way as when you were younger. That's not rebellion, that's just faintly nauseous. Why recaprure anything? Why move away from it in the first place if it means so much?

    I dont need to regain my youthful passions...I never lost them.

    The fact that you talk about wanting to wear hitops with skulls on them says you're already self-conscious about it. Too much detail, girl, as they say.

    That's just it - I dont think wearing the standard goth\punk livery is any different to going into a fucking office in a grey suit. It's just another uniform. True rebellion is a mental thing, not a Jonny Rotten thing.

    As to what Bob wants to write - of course that's up to him. No-one said otherwise. Another straw dummy. But Bob's no fool, his dignity - something different - is important to him, no doubt. Dignity, not pipe and slippers. Two dofferent animals.

    If you want rebellion try having a family and surviving on fuck-all while living as a poet\musician and bringing up children. That takes guts, not playing to a gallery of mostly like minds. From what you say I dont think you're in the least bit indivualistic, not one iota, not a jot. Seriously. From wjat you've said - and that's all I've got to go on - I'd say you're a bog-standard standard-issue modern Cure fan. Nothing veiled about that. It's meant as an insult, possibly because you seem detrmined to reduce everything to an ego-fest, rather than talk about the fucking songs. Why is why I'm done.

    Hyn...got to chuckle at the canoe thing...not heard it before

    ReplyDelete
  67. Clockwise CatAugust 28, 2008 at 10:24 AM

    i dont actually wear hightops with skulls on them. it was an example. i wear skull skirts sometimes, though. ;-) but i am about as far from GOTH or punk as you can get. i fucking hate that shit and agree with you that it's another uniform. sartorially i am purely MYSELF. and anyway it's not about me - that was just an EXAMPLE of how some people refuse to age "appropriately" according to societal norms. and yes, there can be sickening self-conscious aspects to it.

    there is a huge disparity between self-conscious rebellion and authentic rebellion. i equate the self-conscious rebellion with youth, but there is genuine purpose there as well of course. your point was made, though, but you're misunderstanding mine. or perhaps i was not wording it well.

    i am not talking about regaining passions - i am talking about tapping into innate passions that are always there, in abundance. while some of rsx's lyrics may seem contrived at times, i do think they evolve from a genuine place. i think rsx is more passionate than ever - and he still has that rebellious spark. he in on the cusp of 50, and i sense a change in him - not a fake harkening back to youth change, but a realization that we never lose our youth, in a sense. it's not even ABOUT youth, really, it's just about living in a raw, authentic way. and this is reflected wonderfully in some of his new lyrics. so what if the perfect boy sounds like it was written from a teenage perspective? that is what to me endows it with so much JOY.

    and i am talking about the songs, all the time. DUH. we are off on a thematic tangent. can you not grasp that?

    and don't denigrate what you don't know. i was using examples, and in no way trying to inflate my sense of individuality. we're all herd, anyway. i was just using illustrative examples. for all you know i am a granny in my rocking chair already. that's not the fucking point. you called bob out for singing about what you saw as youthful passions, and i am calling you out on that. end of story.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Clockwise CatAugust 28, 2008 at 10:27 AM

    AND

    i don't consider it rebellious to bring up **children** while trying to live as a poet. i consider that pathetic.

    rebellion takes on many flavors, anyway, and cannot be quantified so easily.

    ReplyDelete
  69. falstaffAugust 28, 2008 at 10:43 AM

    Clockwise...'i don't consider it rebellious to bring up **children** while trying to live as a poet. i consider that pathetic. '

    Eh? As far as brittle and shouty statements go, this is in a league of its own. Pure nonsense. It makes so little sense it's not worth responding to. I'm sure you meant something half-way sane by this, but I'm buggered if I know what it is. I'm even more buggered if I'm hanging around to find out.

    ...and if rebellion cannot be quantified so easily, why did you bring it up inthe first place? And quantify it?

    calling out...what? eh? For a taxi?
    I'm not against Bob's youthful passions, whether Smith or Dylan. I'm against crap songs, in whatever form they take. Especially from someone who didn't use to write crap songs.

    This isn't goign anywhere. On that, my muddle-headed possum, we can agree.

    ...'living in a raw, authentic way'?

    lol...what, like an uncooked carrot, you mean??

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  70. falstaffAugust 28, 2008 at 10:49 AM

    (and with that he deleted his sign-in and password)...gone....

    ReplyDelete
  71. Clockwise CatAugust 28, 2008 at 10:55 AM

    you slay me with your searing WIT.

    yes - raw, and authentic, like our analagous carrot. i'm a big fan of salad so it's quite fitting, really. i'd rather eat uncooked veggies than cooked ones. i'm culinarily REBELLIOUS.

    someone who has the means to get a job to support their children but instead chooses to starve his or hear family is indeed pathetic. i am not denigrating the honest soul who tries to get a job and cannot; i am denigrating the person who CAN get that job and refuses to on "principle," and in the process his or her family suffers. there is no princple in that.

    this is tiresome, i agree, and we are about to get spanked by craig anyway.

    *looks forward to a whipping by COF King Craig*

    ReplyDelete
  72. caterpillargirl2August 28, 2008 at 12:09 PM

    WOW! You three have been busy mutilating that equine corpse. LOL!

    Hyn - the posting of WY lyrics was so appropriate on this thread, I had tears in my eyes reading it. In my selfishness I had applied the lyrics to a person in my life and had owned it.....almost forgetting the person who wrote it in the first place and what he might have been trying to say.

    ReplyDelete
  73. AnonymousAugust 28, 2008 at 12:17 PM

    So to sum this up, it's pathetic to raise rebellious kids that were conceived using Viagra by passionate artists who try to fight their societal standards by dressing with to-shirt with skulls, right?

    ...or did I missunderstand something?

    DJ, I need your help with all these essays!!!

    ReplyDelete
  74. AnonymousAugust 28, 2008 at 12:19 PM

    And I now have a second Cure hero in hynreckandjoe. Posting the lyrics was genius. I personally get the hint! lol

    What's the title of the new album again?

    4;13, right?

    ReplyDelete
  75. caterpillargirl2August 28, 2008 at 12:26 PM

    HAHAHA! Fantac, great way to sum it up. That's about what I got from it too.

    And for the most part, I don't see Craig getting upset at this. I'm proud of everyone! You all had a civil heated discussion without name-calling and terrorizing each other.

    It might have gone on and on and on.....but, you know. It's not the official cure site by any means.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Clockwise CatAugust 28, 2008 at 12:38 PM

    fantac, i want to raise babies with you while working as a struggling carrot.

    ReplyDelete
  77. hynreckandjoeAugust 28, 2008 at 1:54 PM

    AWW, thank you all, but you know, to give credits, it's Cat that pointed first how WY must have been about disgruntled fans.

    It got me thinking about songs like END, and how sometimes Robert makes songs about his fans, or fame and such, whether tongue in cheek or desperate.
    And yeah, maybe WY really is about some couple, it's good enough (and vague enough too), but I feel it's more about his constantly displeased fans...
    ...another rant in the form of please stop loving me, PLEASE stop loving me, I am none of these things... I AM NONE OF THESE THINGS!!

    ...you know.

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  78. AnonymousAugust 28, 2008 at 2:49 PM

    Life is great!

    ReplyDelete
  79. christl d.August 28, 2008 at 7:18 PM

    can we stop bickering! you're breaking my heart! :(

    fantac - help you with your epic essays? im not worthy enough. =/. i might misspell something!

    ReplyDelete
  80. hynreckandjoeAugust 29, 2008 at 8:09 AM

    Hears Elton John singing:

    Don't go breaking my heart,
    I couldn't if I tried...

    ReplyDelete

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