Wednesday, March 18, 2009

The sad state of the ticketing industry

Ever wonder how the scalpers get those great seats, even before a pre-sale? Trent Reznor has an explanation. And check this LA Times article for more.
Posted by Craig at 2:17 AM

24 comments:

  1. StigmurderMarch 18, 2009 at 4:20 AM

    Did anyone happen to see how Fox News reported on this yesterday? They said basically the opposite of what Trent /actually/ said, stating that he openly admitted giving tickets to his shows straight to the scalpers, rather than his fans.

    Trent linked to it on Twitter, and fan power got the story changed.

    Trent's post is certainly a scary read though; I had no idea the corruption ran so deep.

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  2. hynreckandjoeMarch 18, 2009 at 7:55 AM

    I'm a cynical at heart, so I KNEW corruption runs that deep and more...
    o_q
    Yea, I know, I'm not much of an original either, but can't win them all and blah blah blah.

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  3. KateMarch 18, 2009 at 8:45 AM

    Either way, this is all fascinating.

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  4. jlamourMarch 18, 2009 at 11:24 AM

    Yeah I didn't know it was possible to get such shitty seats as I did when The Cure came to Chicago with the efforts I put into getting good tickets but I am admittedly naive when it comes to this stuff. I don't think concert attendees should have to have a PhD in buying concert tickets to get a decent seat. I thought by just following the band like a good fan, checking updates on the site and the glorious COF blog, I would be savvy enough to get good seats without having to bow to a scalper. But fucking Christ myself and thousands of fans were very way off. I was bought 4 tix immediately when the presale went on and despite this acheivement the seats I got were terrible. There must have been REAL fucking shenanigans with this concert. And the thing is I would have paid more for better seats so the issue of the actual market value is true. I paid $65 for the "floor" level seats which were actually lower level balcony in the far left corner. I got 2 tix for my friends for $55 and they were literally 15 feet above me on the upper balcony, a negligible difference in sound and sight of the band. The gig was delayed for months because the band was working on the new album so I don't know if Allstate fucked with the seating arrangement between the postponement. Whatever the fuck is going on sucks. I felt like the wool was really pulled over my eyes with this experience. Of course I learned my lesson and ended up buying tickets for $200 apiece for the RCMH show and had decent seats. Live and learn. I partially blame the band for this situation but I don't think it has to be a huge concern for them considering their options. As long as they're getting a fair share of the $ made from this system, amen. I just don't want to see the $ go to some Camero-driving latent frat-boy fag who lives off of undermining Cure fans' expriences. Thanks for the link to the article and keep up the good work with this site.

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  5. jlamourMarch 18, 2009 at 11:33 AM

    I want to say I partially blame all bands/musicians who deal with Ticketbastard not just the Cure for being players in this game. OMG I didn't realize the music industry was full of sleezy snakes! lolz

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  6. Dave VTMarch 18, 2009 at 11:49 AM

    I ordered Depeche tix for the Comcast Center by phone on Monday, first day of the pre-sale. Was on the call with a Ticketmaster rep within five minutes of the sale starting. I still ended up with seats in the second section back! Hard to believe that all the front sections were gone already!! On top of that, I was charged a whopping $27 in additional 'ticketing' and 'facility' fees. An outrage, that should be looked into on a federal prosecutorial level!!!!!

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  7. Exploding cureMarch 18, 2009 at 11:58 AM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

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  8. jlamourMarch 18, 2009 at 12:04 PM

    Hey Dave VT those 'service' charges are outrageous but I honestly don't know what the solution is. That does seem criminal. I guess Congress can investigate some 'price gouging' but I still believe in capitalism so I don't really know the solution. And I'd rather see Congress put their efforts into investigating the omnipotent SEC after the whole Madoff situation but like our Congress is worth a shit anyway.

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  9. MissDrea83March 18, 2009 at 2:42 PM

    I did everything I could to get my seat for The Cure in Vegas, and only got ones on the balcony...and it was the pre-sale! Oddly enough though, I tried asking for 2 and 2 instead of 4 tickets, and it came up with floor tickets. Bizarre. But, I agree that the whole thing is a pile of crap! Tickets being hundreds and hundreds of dollars on StubHub PRIOR to any tickets being on sale SUCKS! And "scalpers" buying up all the good seats, only to turn around and make a ridiculous profit. If you want to see the show, buy the tickets. If you just want to make money, go find a job elsewhere.

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  10. MissDrea83March 18, 2009 at 2:43 PM

    JLAMOUR...right on! Our Congress is f***ed. Capitalism is f***ed!

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  11. AnonymousMarch 18, 2009 at 3:33 PM

    Well speaking of all this, I've ended up with an extra floor hard ticket that I'd like to see go to a fan for face value (plus mailing if you're not nearby)...in case anybody's looking for one and doesn't have a Citi card to use thru Ticketmaster themselves... email newer456@verizon.net

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  12. Dumb AnguishMarch 18, 2009 at 6:59 PM

    As sick as it makes me, this whole scalping business will thrive as long as there are people who have the dough to pay whatever these people are asking.

    Though, I appreciate any bands efforts to get as many of the good tickets to as many of the true fans as possible.

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  13. AnonymousMarch 18, 2009 at 7:02 PM

    It was great to see Trent post this and to explain this to everyone. I've known this for a while, and for sure since NIN started doing their pre-sale tickets for the fan club themselves. They sold tickets for like $20-40. We had gen. admission and were right up front as long as we got their earlier enough. They even left the fan club in an hour earlier than the general public. You really feel like they care about the fans.

    I was ripped off by scalpers before getting front row and third row tickets for the Cure in the past, paying $300 and $500 dollars a piece! The Cure are not getting this money! What they need to do is exactly what NIN is doing. Sell their own pre-sale tickets. They need to take charge.

    Like Trent said, he is the one up on the stage doing the hard work, he should be the one if anyone profiting on it! If the Cure were to even sell their tickets for $100 or something like half of what the scalpers charge, I'd be willing to pay a bit more knowing it was going directly to the band and their people NOT a scalper.

    And about Fox news...you gotta watch what the news is telling you, it's all biased to what they want us to believe. They hide the truth quite a bit i think.

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  14. AnonymousMarch 19, 2009 at 2:23 AM

    I'm not a NIN fan or anything, but way to go, Trent! I wish money-gougers like U2 had the guts to stand up to this. It's such a shame. Back when the band was a minor success, it had the guts to challenge things. Now, they're making exclusive deals with Live Nation. I guess money really does corrupt nearly everyone -- except Robert, that is!

    I think lots of us grew suspicious when we tried to get Cure tickets last year and were redirected to Ticketsnow. This confirms it. I wish legislators would get involved. It's amazing how monopolies are thought of as wrong if it's the government providing health care, but we seem to let corporations do whatever they want. We've got monopolies or at least cartels in TV cable, airlines, etc. Disgusting!

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  15. AnahMarch 19, 2009 at 2:47 PM

    As in anything in life, when there is money involved, there is corruption. None of this surprises me, or is news to me...but I am glad there is press(and dialog) happening regarding it.

    It's total bullshit that you can literally buy tickets A HALF OF A MINUTE after they go on sale and still only get as close as the second section back from the stage.

    This always happens with me. Too bad that includes Cure shows; and happened to us recently as last week at a Morrissey show. And God knows I can's stand festivals, fuck all that crowded at-the-stage-all-day-in-the-heat shit! (whew)

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  16. AnonymousMarch 19, 2009 at 3:25 PM

    TR is solid.

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  17. AnonymousMarch 19, 2009 at 3:31 PM

    I know what you mean, Anah, I was the first to get a pre-sale ticket for Toronto because I managed to get the ticketmaster agent to give me the right code over the phone and I got row 16. On my way to the show, which actually had started (Open had finished when I got in), I saw a scalper begging me to buy his 4th row ticket for half price. What a fracking waste!

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  18. Dumb AnguishMarch 19, 2009 at 10:16 PM

    HA! I love it about the scalper stuck with a ticket trying to sell it for half price.

    I'm a big fan of karma and poetic justice!

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  19. AnonymousMarch 21, 2009 at 11:42 AM

    The thing is, Dumb Anguish, this guy didn't look well-off or like he had the most high tech equipment. He probably got it from some other guy who does the computer work. I was not happy he was selling it, but I really feel upset that I didn't have the ticket! Such a damn shame!

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  20. swiftyMarch 21, 2009 at 12:43 PM

    A mother was working in the kitchen, listening to her 7 year old son playing with his new electric train in the living room. She heard the train stop and her son saying, "All of you bastards that want off, get the hell off now,'cause this is the last stop! And all of you bastards that are getting on, get your ass in the train,'cause we're going down the tracks."

    The horrified mother went in and told her son, "We don't use that kind of language in this house. Now I want you to go to your room and stay there for TWO HOURS. When you come out, you may play with your trains again, but I want you to use nice language."

    Two hours later, the son came out of the bedroom and resumed playing with his train. Soon the train stopped and the mother heard her son say, "All passengers who are disembarking the train, please remember to take all of your belongings with you. We thank you for travelling with us today and hope your trip was a pleasant one." She hears the little boy continue, "For those of you just boarding, we ask you to stow all of your hand luggage under your seat.Remember, there is no smoking on the train. We hope you will have a pleasant and relaxing journey with us today." As the mother began to smile, the child added, "For those of you that are fucking pissed off about the TWO HOUR delay, please see the fat bitch in the kitchen."

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  21. MoggieboyMarch 21, 2009 at 8:08 PM

    I've just uploaded a rare 1985 BBC Recording LP onto my blog: http://rippedinglasgow.blogspot.com

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  22. CarlosMarch 21, 2009 at 9:12 PM

    theres actually a non official cure dvd but officialy realeased by BBC with that recording and 3 extra songs from 1979. really good

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  23. CarlosMarch 21, 2009 at 9:17 PM

    sorry, my mistake, im talking about a different gig from the Top Tour in Glasgow

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  24. namepaMarch 22, 2009 at 1:32 PM

    I hate to rant here (and it is a position I have taken before) but there is a basic misunderstanding that seems to be prevelant here. Namely, that a ticket to see the bands we love is a right that is concurrent with our appreciation of the artist in question. That makes no sense to me at all. A ticket is a license and as such is a commodity, period. I love Ferrari's but I don't expect the market to accomodate me so I drive a Honda. I bought 15-20 copies of the first Interpol EP for $5 each on a hunch they might be worth $25 someday. I was very pleased when they went well over $100 and turned a profit because they were collectible items. The band got the $75-$100 they wanted and I took on the risk that the discs would never amount to more than coasters. Same is true of anything you buy with your own money, it is yours to resell or keep as you see fit. You have paid the asking price if the seller and now control the new asking price as the market bears. Who would debate that the folks who buy collectable merchandise or expensive tickets are anything but the biggest fans?

    Now if individuals or companies have secret deals or agreements that land them premium seats outside of the normal process that is a different story. I can tell you that I had a friend 20 years or so ago that always got good tix and that was because he had a friend at Tower records that would always set aside the first block of tix for their friends. It happens, it's called a hook up and we have all gotten them at some point or other.

    To be fair I will say that the average person doesn't understand how the ticket process works as far as it relates to venues, bands and ticket sellers before the tickets are even made public. The venue has a lot more to do with setting prices than the artist and believe me most artists have no clue what their tickets cost (other than an approximation)and it isn't how artists get paid anyway in many cases, especially club shows where venues pay a fee to a band and then make whatever money they can after the fact.

    Finally 2 points on presales and fan clubs. First it was brought up on a post about DM tix that BRAT doesnt want the codes getting out. (BRAT is a tool by the way) Any brokerage worth their salt has peons who spend their days joining band fanclubs to get these passwords and those brokerages have the codes just as quick as every other fan out there rest assured.

    Secondly understand that a venue's cappacity and tickets available will not add up ever because of the huge numbers of tickets allotted to various groups before even the presales happen and these tickets are set aside in blocks. So the band gets theirs, the label gets theirs, the venue get theirs, the corporate sponsers of the venue get theirs, the radio station(s) get theirs and the season ticket holders at the venue (if that applies) keep theirs BEFORE any tickets are made public. Depending on the size of the venue we are talking about hundreds or thousands of tickets gone before any type of sale and all of them are premium seats. Then the presales hit, the fan club, the radio station, american express...whatever applies and those are set aside in blocks throught the venue not just premium. Plus TM or whoever needs to have large numbers of seats in all areas still available for the general onsale. Which is why sometimes you can get better seats there than in the presale.

    The best advice I can give is use tickets you don't need to offset the ones you want. If you don't the brokerages still will so if someone has to pay for second hand tickets isn't better to have the money going to someone like them rather than some creepy minion or some dude who doesn't even know who is playing.

    One last thing (and I am sure there are many who already know this) on big shows buying tickets at the venue is a goldmine. Often pits and down fronts are available in the days and hours right before a supposedly sold out show. It is the silver lining to so many tickets being set aside beforehand and something you can take advantage of if you have a good back up plan.

    Oh and 1 more thing, if we ever want to keep tickets from falling into the wrong hands and keep prices low than just have folks buy tickets with their name and force the ticketholder to arrive with ID at the door and make the ticket non transferrable like at a movie theater.

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