Great interview in this months @RhythmMagazine with The Cure's Jason Cooper! pic.twitter.com/eqOsSz4Jsn
— Natal Drums (@Nataldrums) March 9, 2015
"The Cure's Jason Cooper talks about his 20 years with one of alternative rock's most influential bands."You can pick up a copy in UK stores or order worldwide here. (Thanks Aaron)
In the interview, Jason says his favorite Cure songs to play live are 'Faith' and 'Same Deep Water As You'. I knew there was a reason I liked him. :) Now if Robert would just let him play them more often. Can't post the whole thing, but here are a few excerpts:
Okay, you Jason haters. Come out of your pits and start bashing! :-P I'm sure this kind of magazines interviews only bad musicians!
ReplyDeleteOn which page is the interview with Boris?
March 1990, "Modern Drummer" magazine (USA). Extensive interview of Boris Williams by Adam Budofsky. Includes drum scores and comments made by Boris. Come on...
DeleteOk - I'll give it a shot.
Delete"One of alternative rock's most influential bands."
Even if they've lost commercial popularity, very few, musicians especially, would dispute this.
What did Jason play on that's essential to that legacy, though?
He's been on 4 records, and none of them actually substantially contribute to their stature as a band. Many diehard Cure fans, ones that really want to like the albums since WMS, admit they just aren't what they used to be.
Not that they really matter, but when the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame gave their biography of the Cure, it was interesting to note the nomination was based almost entirely on work done up and through the early 90s, before Jason joined.
I'm not claiming the band took a downward trajectory, artistically and commercially, entirely because of him, but not finding a suitable replacement for Boris was a significant contribution.
There is an interesting part in the interview where we all can notice that Jason knows what to do drumwise to give the songs that "Cure sound", but obviously he can't play in that fashion thus ruining all of the songs:
Delete"Boris would play
them sort of like a drum machine, and they would
sound like four or eight or even 16-bar phrases that
would then repeat over the duration of a song.
Sometimes an eight- or nine-minute song, and you’re
playing the same eight-bar phrase over the whole
thing with no fill, nothing that changes when it comes into the choruses. Then again, that’s what sort of makes it sound like The Cure.”
That's good mate, well done :)
ReplyDeleteJason rules and has rules for 20 years.
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ReplyDeleteI don't care if Mr. Bean plays the drums, I just want a new Cure Album! (one that doesn't suck...) Jason's cool.
ReplyDelete"I don't care if Mr. Bean plays the drums, I just want a new Cure Album!"
DeleteNo offense but you must be a fan since 1996 or later, right?
So, he never said anything about quitting the Cure, or that The Cure is on hold, or anything similar. That's a good news in itself :) Good luck, Jason!!! You rock!!!
ReplyDeleteWhy would he? None of that is true. Where does nonsense like this come from? They just played 3 massive shows in Dec. That was 3 short months ago.
DeletePlease, Craig, don't get upset. It's just a fan's neurosis:). Please, be more understanding and ...forgiving. All this just speaks to how much we love the band and ALL the people that had been active with it through the years.
ReplyDeleteOnly in the Cure can you still be "The New Guy" after 20 freakin' years!!!
ReplyDeleteHe should have said, "New Guy questions should now be directed at Reeves!" :) :) :)
The current band configuration is perfect for today, just as previous lineups were perfect for then. Jason haters....go get a life. A new album with this lineup would be freakin' awesome!!!!
ReplyDeleteThe problem with the drums isn't Jason. It's the fact that Robert has minimized their impact since the time that he joined. Has anyone compared the original release of 'Entreat' and the remastered 'Entreat Plus'? The latter is very disappointing.
ReplyDeleteThere could be some truth to that.
DeleteThat's spot on. It's not the drum parts that are bad, it's the sound of them. Since Robert stopped working with David Allen (coincidentally after Boris' last album, Wish) the mixing of the drums has been awful. They've gone from sounding like thunder and lightning to a fight in a biscuit tin.
DeleteThe music alone should speak for itself, however I do think Jason has an image problem in that we've been exposed to the personalities of most band members via the various VHS releases and stuff like the MTV Wish special and more, but Jason is pretty much stuck with only being on the dull interview section of Trilogy. 20 years of being a Cure and I know literally nothing about the guy.
ReplyDeleteI was always sad that Galore had none of the home-movie footage that made you feel like you knew the band.
Some good points there.
DeleteHe sounds very... aware... of all the people who still clamor for Boris. Even though he says otherwise, I can't imagine it being a pleasant thing to deal with.
ReplyDeleteSounds like he's very deliberately making it clear, the reason the drums sound shit since he joined is down to Robert, not him. However his weak right hand, is nothing to do with Robert.
ReplyDeleteJason sounds much more modern, to me. Boris was great, but his drums were miked and recorded and mixed in all very 80's fashion. Jason plays much more complex things and is never out of time. So, guys, he's clearly a better drummer. Again, this is my opinion.
ReplyDeletei will never not love boris, firstly. but since jason has been around for a couple decades i suppose he might as well stay. ;) if cure fans have any flaw in the least it's that we are absolutely timeless! "20 years?!? feels like five minutes..."
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for posting those, Andrea B.!
ReplyDeleteAndrea B didn't post those. :)
DeleteAndrea sent me the interview, then I screencapped a few highlights. Can't post the whole thing, out of fairness to the magazine. This is just a preview. If you want to read the whole thing, you should buy the magazine.
Much of what I had known had to be true: Robert steers the ship, so it seems obvious that if he wanted it, Jason would play/compose the "Boris-like" drum parts, the repetitive/linear patterns that everyone LOVE that also happen to be at the peak of the Cures visibility (notice it did not say quality of song, best line up etc) Jason has a lot of chops (technique) and is certainly capable of playing all the Cure drum parts recorded and he seems to have a pretty consistent grasp of keeping the tempos in check live, possibly my only gripe with Boris on some stuff, UNLESS "that's how Robert wanted it" at the time (only a member of the Cure could answer that one)
ReplyDeleteSo while we're at it, and MUCH thanks for the interview bits, (somewhat related thanks for baring with me) Does anyone have any insight from possibly past interviews, studio footage, etc on what guitar parts Porl/Pearl actually made the recordings? I debate this with a guitarist friend as to me, it seems Robert is likely much like Billy Corrigan regarding the guitar parts, he could have likely done everything, so the "Just Like Heaven" hook/riff, Robert or Porl/Pearl? I'd love some insight into this as I know Robert has said Porl/Paul would write parts Robert wouldn't think of, but just WHICH parts are not done by RS? Much thanks for any insights.
ReplyDeleteI have long had the same question. We all know Porl (never known in The Cure as "Pearl") is probably a better overall technical guitar player than Robert but we don't know which parts from the studio recordings are his. Then something like FTEOTDGS comes out and knowledgeable fans hear the guitar solo and think, "Oh, that's so obviously Porl," only to find out it was really Robert... but then Porl plays that lead live when he's in the band. Weird stuff. I do remember Robert saying that Porl came up with the main guitar riff for "Fight" and I think two other songs on KMKMKM.
DeletePorl recorded the guitar intro on "all i want", he said that two years ago, i think.
DeleteAs a guitarist, you can learn to tell their styles apart. Obviously Porl was a bit wilder, could play faster, but also either shared a lot in common with Robert's style or was a good "mimic" as he could sound a lot like Robert live... But it's true that Robert probably played 90% of the Cure's studio guitat stuff (as well as keyboards) during the 1984-1992 era... The '96 Guitar World issue stated that Porl's parts are usually more "background stuff" and that the "lion's share" of playing was done by Robert. As for Just Like Heaven, it seems quite clear to me that Robert is playing almost everything, including the main riff - which is actually a mixture of guitars and Bass VIs (apparently tuned to baritone), along with some harmony-drone notes. It all sounds like Robert... Look up "Just Like Heaven Instrumental" on YouTube and there is the full instrumental, then a breakdown of other instruments/groups of instruments. A LOT going on there, sounds like Robert went in the studio alone at night as some of the playing is quite sloppy... But with so many instruments the "slop" doesn't come through on the album.
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ReplyDeleteI assume on Wish Perry played very little guitar, as Greatest Hits credits him for keyboards on High and FIIL (WHAT keyboards on FIIL??) and we know RS plays all guitars on FTEOTDGS, so already 3 with no Perry guitars. But to be fair...he had zero experience of recording in a studio, I'm sure he was eased in 'gently' by not being given very much to do. I've often wondered if the piano is even Perry.
ReplyDeletePorl did the accoustics on A Letter To Elise, RS confirmed this in Total Guitar.
Bloodflowers...RS said somewhere that HE re-recorded parts Perry played, even parts Perry had written
Back to Disintegration...I think Porl barely plays on it. He isn't on Plainsong at all. That song is Boris on drums, RS on Bass IV and the keys are: RS holds a chord the entire song, Roger plays the lead keys and Simon plays some low notes. No bass guitar, no Porl.
I highly doubt he's on TSDWAY to be honest, maybe others.... I know some doubt Simon as playing bass on one or two, maybe it's true.
Boris's kick drums on the title track Disintegration were all replaced by drum samples (which his own kick drums were used to trigger the samples - some may/may not understand that!). I believe Dave Allen, for reasons unknown, convinced RS to authorise that.
*Piano on Trust, I meant to write*
DeleteThanks for the notes, Crimson. I do specifically remember Perry playing the lead piano part for Trust when I saw them in 1992. Porl had an extra keyboard off to the side and played some supporting keyboard line to the main piano line. That was the only time he played keyboards the whole night. It was a different stage setup from "In Orange" where he had a keyboard in front of him the whole night and would play that or a guitar... or the sax near the end. I don't mind at all when The Cure gets guitar heavy but sometimes I think they need someone like Porl who can play guitar or keyboards depending on the needs of the song. Now we have Roger who won't play guitar and Reeves who won't play keyboards. Nothing against either one personally. And then in 2008 Porl returns and everyone forget he can also play keyboards.
DeleteSorry, my Trust pondering was about if he played it on the album. People say it was a Perry demo, but I don't know where that info is from.
DeleteMy info source as it being a Perry's demo (and it is) is the same as Fear of Ghosts if you know what I mean. The "backing parts" played by Porl are the strings, a part of the song, nothing done to support Perry's poor playing or something. He had some basic keyboard skills I suppose good enough to play some parts live but it's obvious that his main instrument was the guitar, same for Porl.
DeleteIn a Guitar Player interview from 92 (that one with Robert on the cover) Robert somehow makes it appear that all the "louder" parts in Wish are Porl.
(WHAT keyboards on FIIL??)
DeleteThe *very beginning* - first note(s), a G and I believe another octave. You can hear it sustain over the guitar that starts at the beginning of the first full bar (second note). Note: The song is sped up about 40 cents, almost 1/4 step up, so it will be a bit sharper.
Actually, the first 7 notes of the intro are a keyboard-piano-something - sounds like a piano with effects on it...
DeleteOh and there used to be a video on youtube (may well still be) of what is stated as being Porl's guitar from Torture, isolated from the rest of the music. It most likely is Porl, it's very crazy.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info folks! I DO remember Robert saying in possibly 1992 Guitar Player Mag interview will all but Boris that he may have said Trust was Perry's initial idea, Lovesong, Same Deep Water, High being Simons tunes. Regarding Roger who "won't" play guitar live, IF he can, probably not necessary; It seems he plays the Bass VI line on what I imagine is a sample, along with the intro piano sounding part on FIILove and since he's really the only real keyboard player the Cure has had, has the technique to grab all the parts (keys are preferred/main instrument he's mastered; Porl played them as needed as he was obviously a more competent player than Lol, though he was mainly a guitarist who could double)
ReplyDeleteAgain interesting that most seem to be unsure just who else MAY have played guitar on the recordings; I can see the whole band being AROUND, and Simon and the drummer of the era playing all their bits, Roger mostly playing if he was in at the time of the album, but the other guitarists more covering the live bits and hanging out with a drink during recording. Any more info? Please bring it, would love to hear!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think the mixing of Cure songs doesn't help, you often either can't hear or can barely hear many parts on a lot of songs.
ReplyDeleteI'd always assumed Roger had already left the band when the recorded Hello I Love You as (on the Rubaiyat version) I don't hear any keyboards at all, so I was surprised to learn (possibly in Roger's Disintegration Memories) that it was his last session before he left, so he IS on there somewhere.
I wonder on the album version of Fascination Street if, buried deep in the mix, lies the keyboard part that opens the Extended Mix? Roger has always played it live, I don't hear it on the album or single version though. Perhaps someone knows if he was playing it this way well before the remix appeared?
One reason why roger was so frustrated with the self-titled 2004 album was because Ross Robinson was burying his keyboards parts.
DeleteCrimson T, I TOO have wondered about that same short melody line in Fstreet; mixing oversite? Robert must not mind (for live) so it makes you wonder.
ReplyDeleteThis "muso" stuff makes me wish there was COFlowers musician page, much fun to learn new "bits" or speculation.
Sorry everybody... i don't like Jason style... still the style of a child playing... sorry, my opinion. But, like person, he's a great guy, i'm sure.
ReplyDeleteI have listened to a lot of Boris and Jason drumming live recordings and heard both live...and one thing I can say is that when I am attending a concert I can hear things from Jason that I can't hear in recordings, clarity, power, the high-hat, actually live as opposed to a live recording Jason is absolutely brilliant and I think he performs Pornography songs better than any Cure drummer. The Hammersmith shows in December were amazing, Jason really shone on Give Me It and The Empty World to name but a few.
ReplyDeleteHe was fucking awesome at Hammersmith. But then they were playing a lot more stuff *without* backing tracks, which I detest and which clearly stifle creativity.
DeleteBetter playing when not playing to a metronome in his earpiece. There's a clear lesson in that ..
So, with Roger in, just what do they need backing tracks for? Band just could have been really ON and feeling good; I'm sure JC has played extensively with tempo and knows how to make it "feel" so I'm curious to hear ?
ReplyDeleteAs far as I hear these days it's mostly all drum loops and percussion noises, I don't think there are any keys etc, although I think the main guitar riff in Want is on backing. Prayers For Rain on Trilogy is memorable on the intro, the main riff is totally on a looo as Robert is visibly and audibly playing something else on the intro and Perry not playing.
DeleteRoger slagged it off after he left post 'The Cure', he said something to the effect of we'd be surprised at what you can hear that isn't being played.
To expand on the drum loops bit....an obvious one in the current setlist is Push. It has a percussion loop from the intro all the way through, the crunchy kur-kur-kur-kur noise.
DeleteWhy though...? WHY??
To expand on the drum loops bit....an obvious one in the current setlist is Push. It has a percussion loop from the intro all the way through, the crunchy kur-kur-kur-kur noise.
DeleteWhy though...? WHY??
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DeletePurely to keep the right tempo for the songs every time. Probably dictated by Robert.
DeleteTalking about playback tracks, the 2011 trilogic concerts were full of them. Listen to "Descent" and tell me where the guitar chords heard here and there along the song came from but a bloody sampler hidden behing the stage. Which means that the whole song had to be triggered (because the chords are different but well in rhytmic places). When I hear that from a band onstage, I'm always doubting about the words 'live performance'. To me, that's even worse than a drum loop heard in a song. Even when Gallup lost his pick in the stage fog, you could still hear the bass being played. That's dreadful.
ReplyDeleteI very much doubt that Simon was miming his bass parts.
DeleteTo be fair, the Cure started using backing tracks in 1982, with One Hundred Years...
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DeleteThat's true, but they were using drum machines just on albums, not whole chunks of loops and recorded parts in concerts...
DeleteThe "for . . . with" part of this was a bit poignant. Especially after 20 years.
ReplyDeleteThis interview showed me that the issue isn't Jason's. He seems like a genuinely good bloke. He's clearly talented. He probably has an artistry which could have shown through better, had it been allowed to. Unlike Robert's, Jason's ego needs no deflation. I have new respect and empathy for Jason.
Hi. To say that Robert is the culprit of the band's bad sound & bad compositions, is a cheap excuse IMO. Jason's skills are not for a band like The Cure. He is more suitable for bands like Marina & The Diamonds and alike.
DeleteI'm really enjoying everyone's feedback on this, please keep it coming. I"m guilty of not following up on the listed examples on live tunes/backing tracks etc, but I'd be really surprised that at this stage, Simon would ever need to to have any bass tracks as backing, but I'd be certainly surprised to see it; one would think backing harmonies would trump anything if you were trying to present "recording accurate" versions. Simon is a rock solid player and a big influence, but his parts aren't what I'd call technically demanding, just perfect meat and potatoes bass playing delivered with commitment and passion.
ReplyDeleteWhen I had the pleasure to listen to a soundcheck live (from a distance, but it was very clear) not too long ago, there were some parts where Simon played stuff on his own (like a lot of bits from PFT) and it was amazing. If that's not good, I don't know what else it is. They might not be Jaco Pastorius parts, but they are not meant to be like that anyway.
DeleteAs for Jason, he has improved a lot, with prerecorded loops (mostly used to enhance things, not to substitute parts he can't play) or not. Now that he said that all his parts are played according to what Robert dictates, I shouldn't blame him for the slower tempos on some songs... but I still want him to play Icing Sugar live...
In a 1992 interview with MTV, Boris said almost the same: that Robert has the last say. But it's strange how since he left the band, the rhythmic part of the band suffered a lot.
DeleteIt's easy to realize that if a good drummer comes to Robert with a good drum part, then he won't change it. BUT if a weak drummer comes to him with a weak drum part, then -poor- Robert will have to do the best he can improve it.
And that's what happens with Jason and he himself confirms it in a recent interview.
To say that Robert it's the culprit of The Cure's slow tempos, sluggish drum parts, bad drum sound and weak drum compositions, it's a cheap excuse imo.
Well, as a band leader in his position, I can't Robert Smith having to deal with ANYTHING he didn't approve of as it's not a democracy.
ReplyDeleteI have read more than once, that Robert (obviously) has the say on "where" The Cure go stylistically, so with many other "styles" and sounds that are SUPER stereotypical 80's, doesn't anyone agree that it was himself who made the conscious change? (Roger made it pretty clear of this after the “The Cure” album)
For example, and there are many: Processed, reverb drenched drums and snare drum sounds, crisp, clear bass guitars sounds, lush keyboards that were mostly "synthetic" as opposed to piano/organ/OBVIOUS real strings sounds, massively effected electric guitars (chorus on electric guitar is almost universally pegged as an "80's thing”, Simmons drums, DX7 "everything sounds like a bell" super effected vocal tones, it goes on and on...(then of course all came back here and there 20 years later)
When Jason joined what seemed DURING the recording of WMSwings, it was post grunge, dry vocals, raw guitars, crap drum sounds (to me), and muddy, ill defined blurry bass guitar sounds, good luck finding a keyboard part that wasn’t a Hammond B-3 sound or piano; I remember being a little STUNNED the first time I heard WMSwings as it sounded...not at all like what I expected a Cure mix to be (after Disintegration and Wish) My bandmates at the time did not approve and thought it was just too raw and at the time, I agreed (though it was new Cure, so still elated) Thoughts?
The first time I finished hearing WMS I was dissapointed. The songs (structure and arrangements) were too predictable, the overall sound was too bright, first time in my life I was hearing a ride cymbal in a Cure song! (thanks to Jason...) the drum sound was too raw, lifeless, so 'simple' and for yes, the mix wasn't like in any of the past albums. That muddy punchy something was missing. The drumming was a 'chaos' without a structure, like in the past. The only song I really liked was Jupiter Crash... it was beautiful, the most 'curish' sound of the album. The drums had an structure! 15 years later we all know that Boris was the one who composed the drum part, recorded a demo and then Jason just copied it.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely there are culprits of this The Cure debacle: 1) Jason for not being able to reach the standard the band needs 2) Robert for making a bad decision choosing a drummer 3) Boris for leaving the band and taking away the magic with him.
Has it ever been established why Boris left?
DeleteOne of the worsy drum sounds on WMS, for me, is on Club America (which, as a song I happen to love massively).
ReplyDeleteThe drum part and the playing are great, but it sounds like it's being played on empty soup-cans, there's so much top-end on the snare, it's horrific.
Jason doesn't play on Club America of course though...so there is surely some proof there that shit drum sounds are not Jason's fault?
Hi. In general, the drum sounds are horrible. And that has more to do with the drummers' (that played in WMS) personality. It's so clear that they didn't have a say in the band, and given that they weren't professional drummers (or guys with much experience recording in studio) didn't know how they want to sound.
DeleteClub America has an annoying thin snare drum, I'm sure a metallic piccolo snare was used. Also the hi-hats are too loud. I remember reading that Boris chose different rooms in the studio for his recording of KMKMKM. Those big drum sounds came partly because he recorded them in a big concrete walls room.
For old fans -like me- it was obvious that Jason had little input in the band, he is more like a yes man, and 20 years later it's confirmed with the interview given to Rhythm magazine. He promptly blames Robert for his bad sounds and even for his -bad- drum fills!... laughable.
What's your take on the drums for Mint Car (which I think was also one of the WMS songs not played by Jason)?
DeleteThe only song with a decent drum sound is Jupiter Crash. Even the electronic percussion sounds sound great because are not overused or meant to be a replacement for a real drum.
DeleteThe little use of cymbal: only hi-hat, the China cymbal and occasionally a crash cymbal. Wonderful!
My thoughts on Mint car: the snare drum sounds like a tin can.
Mint Car was a studio cat also; it's the production and mixing of the drums in this case, possibly also a choice made during recording in the type of room and so forth, certainly at the end stage where things could have been spiced up. I think it's just an example of the engineering trend of the early mid-nineties. They say you can date a recording by the sound of the snare drum so..Have to admit, not a great fan of most ride cymbal work, but AGAIN if Robert wasn't fine with it, i'm sure it wouldn't be there...it's like when people have questioned why he (Robert) chooses to play the six string bass he does these past few years; he obviously prefers it (for the moment) despite fans wishing for his Fender Bass VI, Jazzmaster guitars, Roland Jazz Chorus amps etc. HIS choice,
DeleteI like the drum playing on Mint Car too and This Is A Lie...again non-Jason songs.....but I don't like the drum sound on Mint Car. Maybe it WAS a mid-90s thing.
DeleteI was a HUGE fan of the first God Machine album and was happy to hear Ronald Austin was given a try out on drums, but I recall Robert made some comment in the media that Ronald wasn't really a Cure (my words there)...it was basically something like that, which essentially meant he wanted the band kept English. Ironic now!
To this day, I literally have no idea who Louis Pavlou is.
Someone else may help out here, but didn't The Wonderstuff's drummer audition during WMS too? I may be misremembering that...but anyway, they have some great drum playing on their records, he'd have been a great Cure drummer. Didn't he go on to be a drum tech with The Cure for a few years?
WOW as soon as I read that Jason had given an interview to Rhythm I went to purchase the digital edition only to confirm that he IS just an employee in The Cure following orders BUT that his abilities fall short when trying to imitate past drummers.
ReplyDeleteThe worst part is that he acknowledge being lazy when moans about Give me it being too difficult (tricky) to play for him and that he would need a year to learn the drum part! but then what does he do? HE GOES TO PLAY WITH MARINA AND THE DIAMONDS AND DO OTHER PROJECTS!
Like other guys are saying Jason has no love for The Cure and it's fans! if it were the case he would be rehearsing the songs he considers as difficult or tricky.
But he also takes the time to criticize BORIS! he tried to minimize Boris' work saying that his drumming compositions are too long with no fills and no changes in the chorus parts! that make me puke out of indignation!
That statements only confirms once again that he's being ruining Robert's songs with his chaotic drumming and bad drums sound. He doesn't take the time to study the stlye and get compositional elements of past Cure drummers.
With this interview he shot himself in the foot!
I agree with you 10000%. After reading the whole interview I was like "wtf is this guy saying!? is he serious?"
Deletea shot in the foot for Jason... this accurately describes the interview.
I think he was being modest when speaking of playing previous drum parts; the technical aspects are well within the range of many drummers with a good degree of technique, but obviously "feel" is subjective when it comes to each player and as I stated, the tempo's can always be controlled. As far as his comments on Boris's playing, I guess THAT I would need to read; perhaps it's a context thing? Also, I don't know how much enjoyment a musician would get without being able to put their own style and approach in here or there; otherwise, you'd just be imitating the previous musicians or in this case, previous drummers. I still think Robert calls it entirely, but it's great that everyone (or a few of us Cure fans) are so passionate about it.
DeleteI know it's an old topic, but man your comment just sounds like you didn't really understand what was being said. About Give Me It: he never said it would take him a year to learn the part, he simply said that it would be easier to get the right feel for the song if they played it every night. If you had any experience playing any piece of music live for a long period of time, you would immediately get what he means. Also, if you were a drummer you would know that give me it actually IS tricky, esp considering he also said that when a song has overdubs over the main part (as is the case with this one), he will still try to approximate both parts. So that's obviously not really easy. As for "minimizing Boris", as you put it, you just need to learn to read, man. He didn't say anything was too long or too repetitive, he just broke down the way the parts are composed, and if you knew how to listen you will find out that it's actually true. Even the article in Modern Drummer, the one praising Boris's style, said this in their analysis (also offering notation charts reflecting it). I think that's great that he was able to arrange and perform things that way, you shouldn't assume that just because someone is compared to a drum machine, that is necessarily meant in a bad way. And mapping out a loop part with different little accents across 8 or even 16 bars is not something average drummers usually do. Jason clearly knows this so it was definitely not meant as a negative comment. That having been established, it's true that his style is very different, and on some songs the comparison doesn't favor him. On Close to Me, for instance, Jason chooses to play the hi-hat part with both hands, although originally it was performed by Boris as a really quick, jazz derived accented 8th note pattern played (mostly) with just the right hand on the hats, which gives it a lighter, more lively feel. But there really aren't many other shortcomings aside from not having been the original drummer on the classic songs we all know and love. Can you blame him for it?
Deletei met jason a couple of days ago in rome airport, and complimented him on give me it - it sounded superb and he got it just right...up in the sticks, with the lights, it looked like they were in a box of violence...
Deletebut for me the problem is just the sounds of the drums themselves these days, not the actual drumming...they sound a bit lifeless at times...
I met Jason in Rome airport a couple of days ago, and complimented him on give me it - he got it pretty much perfect, and from the sticks, with the lights it looked like they were in a box of violence...
DeleteFor me it's the sound of the drums i have a problem with these days - they often sound rather...lifeless.
I feel Jason was very cautious when talking about previous drummers. He said all of them were great and blah blah.
ReplyDeleteHe also TRIED to slap Boris' fans in the face but he FAILED.
When talking about the drum parts he said: "Boris would play them sort of like a drum machine, and they would sound like four or eight or even 16-bar phrases that would then repeat over the duration of a song.
Sometimes an eight- or nine-minute song, and you’re
playing the same eight-bar phrase over the whole
thing with no fill, nothing that changes when it
comes into the choruses"
Haha those LONG eight bar phrases where wonderful because that allowed the other band members to play on top of that without having to compete with a "Jason" drummer who plays lots of cymbals, snare drum hits, tom tom drumfills and so on!
And he lies when he says that those long bar phrases had no fills. I don't remember a single song played by Boris that lacks a drum fill or accent. Jason just tried to -in some way- MINIMIZE or give a bad critic to Boris' work.
After four studio albums it's clear that Jason can't create that kind of patterns (The same deep water as you, One more time, Last dance, If only tonight we could sleep, Plainsong, Prayers for rain, Untitled, the snakepit, a thousand hours, apart, high).
I all honesty, some of those parts, DO get kind of lumped in to sounding "kind of" drum machine like; I love it, and it doesn't strike me as anything but well crafted parts, drum performances that are as important as any other instrument, and drums being more than just keeping a groove. And there were certainly some small fills that break things up. Also must admit, have never been much or a ride cymbal fan ; ) I still think it was a very conscious decision to move forward from previous albums and stay relevant in the changing "alternative" scene of the mid-nineties and beyond.
ReplyDelete